# Iran declines invitation to call Trump about Trump's concerns: Trump the statesman, part 2? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 10, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786 "2019-05-10T16:28:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/61 "2019-05-19T23:23:22Z")
Oh no, it’s easy. Just ask any Republican. All you do is just turn the place into glass, see? Just like we did in Iraq and Afghanistan. Piece of cake. All that is required is a Republican level of stupidity. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/62 "2019-05-20T00:23:23Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Trump, ever the statesman…](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1130207891049332737)“Again?” :dubious: Top of the replies to Trump’s tweet are some of his own tweets from the past: > [@Donald Trump](#): > > 2011: In order to get elected, @Barack Obama will start a war with Iran. > > 2012: Now that Obama’s poll numbers are in a tailspin - watch for him to launch a strike in Libya or Iran. He is desperate. > > 2012: Don’t let Obama play the Iran card in order to start a war in order to get elected–be careful Republicans! > > 2013: Remember what I previously said–Obama will someday attack Iran in order to show how tough he is. Literally every decision Donald Trump has to make is decided by him asking himself: “How can I benefit personally from this?” I believe that issues of ethics or morality have absolutely zero weight in his thinking, and his actions are only ever tempered by what he feels he can get away with. It’s clear that the idea of an opinion poll boost from going to war will be in Trump’s mind, and that is the most dangerous factor in this Iran affair. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/63 "2019-05-20T17:39:50Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Top of the replies to Trump’s tweet are some of his own tweets from the past: > > Literally every decision Donald Trump has to make is decided by him asking himself: “How can I benefit personally from this?” I believe that issues of ethics or morality have absolutely zero weight in his thinking, and his actions are only ever tempered by what he feels he can get away with. > > It’s clear that the idea of an opinion poll boost from going to war will be in Trump’s mind, and that is the most dangerous factor in this Iran affair. I disagree with the conclusions here. Basically, to me, Trump is an isolationist, and I think most of Trump’s base is too. On the other hand, however, he’s essentially clueless about foreign policy, and allows (or has allowed) himself to be guided by the war hawks in his administration. A lot of folks accused W of this, but I think in the case of Trump it really is him being lead by the nose wrt foreign policy, especially the confrontational policy. Some of it is Trump trying to do a good cop/bad cop thing, with himself as the supposed good cop holding back from folks like Bolton. I honestly don’t think Trump wants war, and that a war would hurt him. What he DOES want is to pressure the other country’s into doing things his way. The problem, however, is that his cluelessness wrt foreign policy means that folks like Bolton have a huge impact on our stance and what we are doing…and I think they are moving us closer to confrontations that only they want. This is the problem with electing a president who doesn’t know what he’s doing and has to rely so heavily on others who can use his ignorance to move him and the country where they want him to be. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/64 "2019-05-20T18:16:43Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Basically, to me, Trump is an isolationist, . . . Trump doesn’t have any principles. Everything he says or does is an act. He only talks like an isolationist because he thinks in general that will sound good to his base. If he thinks attacking Iran will be an appealing show for his base, he’ll do it. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/65 "2019-05-20T18:21:16Z")
Trump thinks that America’s coffer is being padded with “tariff money” that we wouldn’t otherwise have. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/66 "2019-05-20T20:06:00Z")
> [@XT](#): > > . . . This is the problem with electing a president who doesn’t know what he’s doing and has to rely so heavily on others who can use his ignorance to move him and the country where they want him to be. But Trump is a genius! That’s part of his plan . . . ‘to be seen to rely so heavily on others who can use his ignorance to move him and the country where they want him to be’. And all the while it’s really him who’s directing things. It’s pure genius! Oh ye of little faith. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/67 "2019-05-20T21:35:39Z")
[Iran has confirmed that it has quadrupled production of enriched uranium](https://apnews.com/e46d3bdff2bd48d9a6a87a6752e6be6f). > [@](#): > > The Iranian enrichment announcement came after local journalists traveled to Natanz in central Iran, the country’s underground enrichment facility. There, an unidentified nuclear scientist gave a statement with a surgical cap and a mask covering most of his face. No one explained his choice of outfit, although Israel is suspected of carrying out a campaign targeting Iranian nuclear scientists. > > The state-run IRNA news agency later quoted Behrouz Kamalvandi, the spokesman of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran, as acknowledging that capacity had been quadrupled. He said Iran took this step because the U.S. had ended a program allowing it to exchange enriched uranium to Russia for unprocessed yellowcake uranium, as well as ending the sale of heavy water to Oman. Heavy water helps cool reactors producing plutonium that can be used in nuclear weapons. > > Kamalvandi said Iran had informed the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. nuclear watchdog, of the development. The Vienna-based agency did not respond to a request for comment. > [@](#): > > Iranian officials made a point to stress that the uranium would be enriched only to the 3.67% limit set under the 2015 nuclear deal with world powers, making it usable for a power plant but far below what’s needed for an atomic weapon. > > But by increasing production, Iran soon will go beyond the stockpile limitations set by the accord. Tehran has set a July 7 deadline for Europe to come up with new terms for the deal, or it will enrich closer to weapons-grade levels in a Middle East already on edge. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2019, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/68 "2019-05-20T21:36:40Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > It’s good cop, bad cop. Things are so fucked up that Donald Trump is the “good cop”. > > On top of that, there’s [Madman theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory) going on. Plus general craziness etc. Trump says this is his strategy, too: > [@](#): > > He described his approach in a speech Friday, saying, “It’s probably a good thing because they’re saying, ‘Man, I don’t know where these people are coming from,’ right?” ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/69 "2019-05-21T01:44:19Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I disagree with the conclusions here. Basically, to me, Trump is an isolationist, and I think most of Trump’s base is too. On the other hand, however, he’s essentially clueless about foreign policy, and allows (or has allowed) himself to be guided by the war hawks in his administration. A lot of folks accused W of this, but I think in the case of Trump it really is him being lead by the nose wrt foreign policy, especially the confrontational policy. Some of it is Trump trying to do a good cop/bad cop thing, with himself as the supposed good cop holding back from folks like Bolton. I honestly don’t think Trump wants war, and that a war would hurt him. What he DOES want is to pressure the other country’s into doing things his way. The problem, however, is that his cluelessness wrt foreign policy means that folks like Bolton have a huge impact on our stance and what we are doing…and I think they are moving us closer to confrontations that only they want. This is the problem with electing a president who doesn’t know what he’s doing and has to rely so heavily on others who can use his ignorance to move him and the country where they want him to be. Trump may not actually want to go to war, but I also don’t think that Trump is being led by Bolton to do anything he wouldn’t be doing himself. Even back in the campaign Trump boasted that the as president his primary negotiating tactic would be to leverage the military and economic power of the United States to bully any country that disagreed with him into submission. That has been his tactic with Korea, (I have a bigger button than you), and with regard to trade negotiations (I’ll tariff you to death), or with the immigration crisis in Mexico (stop immigrants or I’ll invade). So this isn’t just Bolton. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/70 "2019-05-21T04:28:06Z")
Trump is against war, sure. He doesn’t actually want war with Iran, I actually believe that. The only problem is that he also believes that if you’re a tough guy, you can just threaten the weaker guy, and the weaker guy will always back down. Then you win easily without having to fight. It’s the exact same strategy he uses on the Chinese trade deal, it’s the exact same strategy he uses on the NAFTA negotiations, Korea, Europe, and on and on. But the problem here is that everyone knows that he’s all talk. He doesn’t actually want to pull the trigger, he’s just bluffing because he doesn’t want war. Which means he’s not the tough guy in this movie. What happens when you threaten the other guy and he doesn’t back down? Now you either have to follow through on your threats, or humiliatingly back down yourself. So which course of action is Trump going to choose? Following through on a chancy and avoidable military action, or look like a fucking chump? Your guess is as good as mine, it depends on what they say that day on Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/71 "2019-05-21T07:56:39Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It should be noted that essentially nothing you’ve said here about Iran’s nuclear program in anywhere close to accurate. Essentially everyone but Trump and his supporters are of the opinion that Iran is, even now, abiding by the terms of the deal that Trump trashed. And even if they weren’t, Trump’s abrogation relieves Iran of any legal or moral responsibility. It is the stench of Trump’s defecations which have extinguished hopes for peace. Only an American jingoist would blame Iran. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/72 "2019-05-21T13:57:55Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > I think it was a bigger blunder if you weight it for obviousness. At least there was a possibility of a gain from the Iraq war. Leaving the Iran deal was a pretty obvious net loss to the US. I don’t necessarily think the Iran _deal_ pullout is worse, but I’d agree to that statement with regards to an armed conflict with Iran: it would be bigger when you weight for obviousness, since the strength of the Iraqi insurgency was not inevitable or knowable: even though Iraq was obviously an own goal due to its pointlessness, the size of the blunder was not known until later. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/73 "2019-05-21T21:04:38Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I don’t necessarily think the Iran _deal_ pullout is worse, but I’d agree to that statement with regards to an armed conflict with Iran: it would be bigger when you weight for obviousness, since the strength of the Iraqi insurgency was not inevitable or knowable: even though Iraq was obviously an own goal due to its pointlessness, the size of the blunder was not known until later. I respectfully disagree. Everyone knew that invading and occupying Iraq would destabilize the entire region, which it did. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/74 "2019-05-22T04:43:19Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It should be noted that essentially nothing you’ve said here about Iran’s nuclear program in anywhere close to accurate. Essentially everyone but Trump and his supporters are of the opinion that Iran is, even now, abiding by the terms of the deal that Trump trashed. > > [The Next U.S. President Should Rejoin the Iran Nuclear Deal – Foreign Policy](https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/02/12/the-next-u-s-president-should-rejoin-the-iran-nuclear-deal/) > > [Two Years on, the Iran Deal is Working - The Atlantic](https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/07/iran-nuclear-deal-two-years/533556/) > > [Iran still holding up its end of nuclear deal, IAEA report shows](https://news.yahoo.com/iran-still-holding-end-nuclear-deal-iaea-report-161005676.html) > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Iran has confirmed that it has quadrupled production of enriched uranium](https://apnews.com/e46d3bdff2bd48d9a6a87a6752e6be6f). > [@septimus](#): > > And even if they weren’t, Trump’s abrogation relieves Iran of any legal or moral responsibility. > > It is the stench of Trump’s defecations which have extinguished hopes for peace. Only an American jingoist would blame Iran. So, interesting developments this weekend. But the key point is, even though Iran has decided to increase their production of enriched uranium, they’re still (for now, at least) abiding by some of the terms of the Iran Deal, and they’re being forthright in informing the relevant international authorities of what they’re doing, and exactly why they’re doing it. Iran comes out of this looking far more mature and reasonable that Trump et al. do. Good job, US. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/75 "2019-05-22T09:36:20Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Iran comes out of this looking far more mature and reasonable that Trump et al. do. Good job, US. :rolleyes: Which, sadly, is a very low bar to clear. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/76 "2019-05-22T11:00:08Z")
Have we mentioned that Tom Cotton went on the news to fearmonger about Iran, and democratic senators with access to the same information accused him of exaggerating the evidence? > **[Democrats are accusing Trump officials of inflating the Iran threat](https://www.vox.com/world/2019/5/21/18633809/us-iran-war-intelligence-democrats-murphy-gallego)** > > "I’ve read the intel too. And let me be clear: That’s not what the intel says," said one Democratic senator. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/77 "2019-05-22T11:06:00Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Have we mentioned that Tom Cotton went on the news to fearmonger about Iran, and democratic senators with access to the same information accused him of exaggerating the evidence? > > [https://www.vox.com/world/2019/5/21/18633809/us-iran-war-intelligence-democrats-murphy-gallego](https://www.vox.com/world/2019/5/21/18633809/us-iran-war-intelligence-democrats-murphy-gallego) That’ll be the same Tom Cotton who, with 46 fellow Republicans, tried to undermine Obama’s Iran negotiations with a letter and got his ass handed back to him, gift-wrapped, by the Iranians who demonstrated a greater knowledge of US and international law than Cotton and company had. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/78 "2019-05-22T11:18:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That’ll be the same Tom Cotton who, with 46 fellow Republicans, tried to undermine Obama’s Iran negotiations with a letter and got his ass handed back to him, gift-wrapped, by the Iranians who demonstrated a greater knowledge of US and international law than Cotton and company had. Joke’s on Iran (and everyone else who signed the treaty assuming that the word of the US was worth a damn), Cotton was 100% right. Republicans did blow up the deal! ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/79 "2019-05-22T11:39:23Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Joke’s on Iran (and everyone else who signed the treaty assuming that the word of the US was worth a damn), Cotton was 100% right. Republicans did blow up the deal! Aaand guess who’s back to enriching uranium? Oh, the irony! ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/80 "2019-05-22T11:56:34Z")
A cynic might think that TrumpCo has achieved the desired outcome. Step 1 of it, anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786.md?page=5)