# Iran declines invitation to call Trump about Trump's concerns: Trump the statesman, part 2? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 10, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786 "2019-05-10T16:28:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/161 "2019-06-13T13:13:14Z")
Donald Trump: A legend in his own mind. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/162 "2019-06-13T13:47:50Z")
A “legend” who is trying to give Iran’s main rival in the region, Saudi Arabia, [US$8 billion worth of armaments](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republicans-join-democrats-rebuke-trumps-emergency-8b-arms/story?id=63660482) and, at no extra charge, [nuclear weapons](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-approved-nuclear-deals-saudi-arabia-khashoggi/story?id=63492793). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/163 "2019-06-13T14:19:06Z")
There was a report that at least one of the tankers was damaged by a torpedo: > [@](#): > > An oil tanker owned by Norway’s Frontline has been struck by a torpedo off the coast of Fujairah in the United Arab Emirates, shipping newspaper Tradewinds reported on Thursday, citing unnamed industry sources. … [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-tanker-frontline/frontline-oil-tanker-struck-by-torpedo-off-uae-coast-tradewinds-idUSKCN1TE0PI](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-tanker-frontline/frontline-oil-tanker-struck-by-torpedo-off-uae-coast-tradewinds-idUSKCN1TE0PI) That’s not good. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/164 "2019-06-13T14:23:47Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > A “legend” who is trying to give Iran’s main rival in the region, Saudi Arabia, [US$8 billion worth of armaments](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/republicans-join-democrats-rebuke-trumps-emergency-8b-arms/story?id=63660482) and, at no extra charge, [nuclear weapons](https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-approved-nuclear-deals-saudi-arabia-khashoggi/story?id=63492793). Regarding “nuclear weapons”, your link says: > [@](#): > > These authorizations, known as Part 810s, are required for U.S. companies to export nuclear technology or to help develop nuclear facilities or material in foreign countries. It seems a good bit more likely that the USA is assisting Saudi Arabia with a civilian nuclear energy program rather than giving them nuclear warheads, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/165 "2019-06-13T14:36:11Z")
It’s hard to know exactly what’s on Iran’s mind, but they clearly feel squeezed and cornered. I’m thinking the attacks on oil tankers represents one of two things (or maybe both): 1. Try to use economics to discourage an attack. Try to rattle markets. If that’s really a strategy, it probably won’t work as oil prices seem to be in yet another decline. 2. If a war is inevitable, then they’d probably rather bait the US into it before they’re completely prepared. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/166 "2019-06-13T14:38:46Z")
That wouldn’t work if they were baiting Turkey, because they’re [always prepared](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman,_Turkey). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/167 "2019-06-13T15:03:01Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It’s hard to know exactly what’s on Iran’s mind, but they clearly feel squeezed and cornered. > > I’m thinking the attacks on oil tankers represents one of two things (or maybe both): > > 1. Try to use economics to discourage an attack. Try to rattle markets. If that’s really a strategy, it probably won’t work as oil prices seem to be in yet another decline. > > 2. If a war is inevitable, then they’d probably rather bait the US into it before they’re completely prepared. Wait: who do you think attacked those tankers? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/168 "2019-06-13T15:56:58Z")
The simple answer to who is perpetrating the tanker attacks: Either it’s Iran or one of their proxies at Iran’s request, or it’s the USA or one of their proxies at the USA’s request. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/169 "2019-06-13T18:39:32Z")
> [@](#): > > U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo says the U.S. believes that Iran is responsible for attacks that damaged two oil tankers near the Persian Gulf. > > Pompeo said at a news conference Thursday in Washington that the attacks on the ships are part of a “campaign” of “escalating tension” by Iran and a threat to international peace and security. > > He said the United States will defend its forces and interests in the region but gave no specifics about any plans and he took no questions. > **[US blames Iran for attacks on 2 tankers near Persian Gulf](https://apnews.com/article/80621909604c4d9890326107caf300c2)** > > WASHINGTON (AP) — Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said Thursday that the United States government blames Iran for attacks on two oil tankers near the Persian Gulf, casting it as the latest in a series of "provocative actions" that have sharply raised... ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/170 "2019-06-13T18:43:33Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > The simple answer to who is perpetrating the tanker attacks: > > Either it’s Iran or one of their proxies at Iran’s request, or it’s the USA or one of their proxies at the USA’s request. Also could be a Saudi proxy. Maybe there are other possibilities as well. Much too early to be making any judgments based on information available. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/171 "2019-06-13T22:03:41Z")
This would be a perfect time for Iran to have planted the explosive but let Trump and his Republican guard weather the storm of accusations that it was actually a US action. I wouldn’t blame them. On the other hand if Trump responds militarily he’ll have his cause for 2020. All he needs to do is convince a few more percent. The 40-something of his base are already locked. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/172 "2019-06-14T14:07:25Z")
[POTUS, Sec of State and Acting Sec of Defense all publicly blame Iran.](https://www.foxnews.com/world/iran-tanker-unexploded-mine-gulf-oman) > [@](#): > > In an interview with “Fox & Friends” Friday, President Trump said of Iran’s alleged involvement: “We don’t take it lightly”. > > “Iran did do it and you know they did it because you saw the boat,” he said, before pointing to video that showed an Iranian vessel removing an unexploded mine attached to a Japanese-owned oil tanker, the Kokuka Courageous. > > Trump said the limpet mine had “Iran written all over it.” > > “They’re a nation of terror and they’ve changed a lot since I’ve been president, I can tell you.” > [@](#): > > In a series of tweets, acting Defense Secretary Patrick Shanahan praised Navy efforts to rescue those on the Panamanian vessel and called Iran’s “unprovoked attacks” a threat to international security and peace. > > “Iran’s continued unprovoked attacks in the region are a threat to international security and peace and an assault against freedom of navigation on the open seas,” Shanahan posted. It’s a mystery why Iran would feel it counterproductive to talk with the US; a complete mystery. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/173 "2019-06-14T14:15:29Z")
I don’t think Trump wants a war with Iran, but Bolton and Pompeo are probably telling him “We look like pussies if we don’t do anything.” I think the US will pull out all the stops in a war with Iran. Bolton will try to obliterate the place. It’ll be a message to the rest of the world. The question is, how would Iran respond to that. What do they have in place to defend themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/174 "2019-06-14T14:18:46Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > I don’t think Trump wants a war with Iran, but Bolton and Pompeo are probably telling him “We look like pussies if we don’t do anything.” I think the US will pull out all the stops in a war with Iran. Bolton will try to obliterate the place. It’ll be a message to the rest of the world. The question is, how would Iran respond to that. What do they have in place to defend themselves? HoS wants the US to “help” them take care of their Iran “problem”. That’s it. That’s the kernel of truth at the heart of this mess that we’re about to get in. We’ll prolly win the coming war with ease, but I predict that long term, we will lose the peace. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/175 "2019-06-14T14:20:37Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > HoS wants the US to “help” them take care of their Iran “problem”. That’s it. That’s the kernel of truth at the heart of this mess that we’re about to get in. > > We’ll prolly win the coming war with ease, but I predict that long term, we will lose the peace. Yeppirs to the above. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2019, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/176 "2019-06-14T21:47:11Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > HoS wants the US to “help” them take care of their Iran “problem”. That’s it. That’s the kernel of truth at the heart of this mess that we’re about to get in. > > We’ll prolly win the coming war with ease, but I predict that long term, we will lose the peace. Unless Trump does something truly deranged like resort to using nuclear weapons, I doubt we’d even win the first stage of the war (i.e., topping the government) with ease. Waging war in Iran would be at least five times as difficult as Iraq and we’d likely go at it without any of our European allies assisting. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/177 "2019-06-15T01:58:55Z")
Considering who’s in the White House, I think that if war breaks out, Iran will get obliterated. There will probably be international condemnation from traditional allies, but the Trump administration won’t care - one of the benefits of breaking off relationships and acting unilaterally and according to America’s own rules. Conservatives have complained for decades that America doesn’t “fight to win” or fight “real wars” anymore, which is what Bolton and Pompeo will give them. Another thing to keep in mind is that Trump could use this domestically in two ways: one is that if he is viewed as successful, Iran could be part of his re-election strategy; and two, he could use it as a pretext to declare another emergency and make a real power grab. Yes, people will protest, and he will probably put them in jail for doing so. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/178 "2019-06-15T02:14:21Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > . . . he could use it as a pretext to declare another emergency and make a real power grab. Yes, people will protest, and he will probably put them in jail for doing so. Like so much else he might do, his success would depend on the actions of Republican senators and the opinions of John Roberts. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2019, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/179 "2019-06-15T02:34:21Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Like so much else he might do, his success would depend on the actions of Republican senators and the opinions of John Roberts. His success depends on how much people are willing to tolerate, and how much risk they’re willing to take on to push back against his authoritarianism. Yes, much of what I’m saying here seems like alarmism, until you realize that this administration is filing court briefs and legal opinions that declare the executive branch superior to congress, and why would it not then declare itself superior to the judiciary if it rendered an opposing opinion. What can a judiciary (viewed through the prism of 5-4 partisanship I might add) do to stop a president that congress cannot? Do you really think the president and the GOP are going to ignore the congress but comply with a split SCOTUS decision? They’ll just ever-so slightly modify what they’re doing and then compel more legal challenges, just as they did with the Muslim Ban, just as conservatives are doing with their extreme abortion ban laws. Their plan is to wear down the judiciary. \*\*They’re done with democracy. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2019, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786/180 "2019-06-15T02:52:13Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > His success depends on how much people are willing to tolerate, and how much risk they’re willing to take on to push back against his authoritarianism. > > Yes, much of what I’m saying here seems like alarmism, until you realize that this administration is filing court briefs and legal opinions that declare the executive branch superior to congress, and why would it not then declare itself superior to the judiciary if it rendered an opposing opinion. What can a judiciary (viewed through the prism of 5-4 partisanship I might add) do to stop a president that congress cannot? Do you really think the president and the GOP are going to ignore the congress but comply with a split SCOTUS decision? They’ll just ever-so slightly modify what they’re doing and then compel more legal challenges, just as they did with the Muslim Ban, just as conservatives are doing with their extreme abortion ban laws. Their plan is to wear down the judiciary. \*\*They’re done with democracy. \*\* No, I get it. Indeed, I worry that so much can be destroyed by so few. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-declines-invitation-to-call-trump-about-trumps-concerns-trump-the-statesman-part-2/833786.md?page=10)