# Iran forces US jet to land in Tehran; war imminent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 7, 2008, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832 "2008-10-07T13:44:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/21 "2008-10-07T15:10:53Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > :dubious: There’s often a fine distinction between surveillance and spying. It seems rather picayune to jump on Tom for not making the distinction fine enough to suit you and for not being quite as familiar with Soviet military aircraft as you are. I don’t see how the distinctions you want to make would materially affect his point. Point taken on the type of aircraft. My apologies to tomndebb. However, I did want the distinction to be made regarding spy planes and intel aircraft which are routine in nature. The Chinese pilot caused the accident and they tried to spin it to save face. If it was a spy plane the Chinese would have had a field day. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/22 "2008-10-07T15:19:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Point taken on the type of aircraft. My apologies to tomndebb. > > However, I did want the distinction to be made regarding spy planes and intel aircraft which are routine in nature. The Chinese pilot caused the accident and they tried to spin it to save face. If it was a spy plane the Chinese would have had a field day. I don’t get exactly what the distinction is. What’s the difference between a “spy plane” and a “surveillance plane” or an “intel plane”. Is it just the difference between overflying the other country’s airspace? If you fly over the country you’re a spy plane, if you fly next to it you’re an intel plane? Or what? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/23 "2008-10-07T15:28:19Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I don’t get exactly what the distinction is. What’s the difference between a “spy plane” and a “surveillance plane” or an “intel plane”. Is it just the difference between overflying the other country’s airspace? If you fly over the country you’re a spy plane, if you fly next to it you’re an intel plane? > > Or what? Foreigners fly ‘spy’ planes. Americans fly planes with more cuddly names. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/24 "2008-10-07T15:29:39Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I don’t get exactly what the distinction is. What’s the difference between a “spy plane” and a “surveillance plane” or an “intel plane”. Is it just the difference between overflying the other country’s airspace? If you fly over the country you’re a spy plane, if you fly next to it you’re an intel plane? > > Or what? Spy planes fly very fast and very high over enemy territory to avoid being spotted or, failing that, shot down. An intelligence plane is basically a sitting duck - depending on other planes for protection - but OTOH, is much better at actually gathering intelligence. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/25 "2008-10-07T15:32:10Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Spy planes fly very fast and very high over enemy territory to avoid being spotted or, failing that, shot down. An intelligence plane is basically a sitting duck - depending on other planes for protection - but OTOH, is much better at actually gathering intelligence. Which was [Francis Gary Powers’ U2?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_U-2_incident) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/26 "2008-10-07T15:33:50Z")
That was a spy plane. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/27 "2008-10-07T15:36:42Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I don’t get exactly what the distinction is. What’s the difference between a “spy plane” and a “surveillance plane” or an “intel plane”. Is it just the difference between overflying the other country’s airspace? If you fly over the country you’re a spy plane, if you fly next to it you’re an intel plane? > > Or what? Pretty much. The distinction means you get to shoot at spy planes but only annoy intel planes. If anyone cares the plane in the story I linked to was the first [Dassault Falcon 7X prototype](http://www.airliners.net/photo/Dassault-Aviation/Dassault-Falcon-7X/1249633&tbl=photo_info&photo_nr=5&sok=WHERE__%28reg_%3D_%27F-WFBW%27%29_&sort=_order_by_photo_id_DESC_&prev_id=1298215&next_id=1232284). I looked up the tail number on the net for the heck of it and got a hit. I wanted to confirm it was a file photo. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/28 "2008-10-07T15:40:46Z")
Note in the case of China, the Chinese claim a lot of land and water in the South China Sea that is not recognised by the US or the UN. [![](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Schina_sea_88.png) ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Schina_sea_88.png) I guess the distinction between a spy plane and a surveillance plane is based on whether the aircraft has the “right” to be where it is. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/29 "2008-10-07T15:47:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That was a spy plane. With the correction that it’s not very fast. It’s more like a glider. It requires a chase car to land it because of the center line wheel set up. Not an easy airplane to fly. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/30 "2008-10-07T15:48:31Z")
Fox news is reporting that it was a Hungarian aid plane with no Americans on board, and anyway the incident happened Sept. 30. The passengers were questioned and released a day later. So… end of thread. Unless someone wants to start one on “what is or is not a “spy” plane” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/31 "2008-10-07T15:54:52Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > With the correction that it’s not very fast. You’re right - I had it confused with the SR-71 Blackbird, which was somewhat faster. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/32 "2008-10-07T17:50:02Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > With the correction that it’s not very fast. It’s more like a glider. It requires a chase car to land it because of the center line wheel set up. Not an easy airplane to fly. Well, “fast” is a relative term. It is not supersonic but it is plenty faster than a glider: > [@](#): > > [Lockheed U-2 - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_U-2) > > Maximum speed: 434 knots (500 mph, 805 km/h) > Cruise speed: 373 knots (429 mph, 690 km/h) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/33 "2008-10-07T17:59:42Z")
I think our massive forces are moving into their staging positions for the imminent invasion of Iran…just as predicted here on the SDMB for the past 5 years! Bush only have a few weeks left to launch the expected all out war and this is the prefect excuse…! Oh…wait. It wasn’t even an American plane? Well…um, that shouldn’t matter. Yeah. In fact…hey, it’s BUSH! He will launch the invasion anyway…why waste the chance? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/34 "2008-10-07T18:26:18Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > CNN is reporting that Iran has forced a US jet to land in Tehran after it violated Iranian airspace (no online link yet). Will the Bush administration use this as a reason to attack Iran and open a third front in the the War on Terror? Even though this report may be false, I don’t put it past Georgie Porgie and the extreme right wing of the Republican party to concoct some cheeky stuff that aggravates somebody out there enough for some international incident just so they can turn the attention of the electorate away from the economy back to defense, war, security and the like… Actually, I’d be surprised if they don’t try something shortly to put McCain back in the driver seat. It’s SOP.:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/35 "2008-10-07T18:32:43Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Well, “fast” is a relative term. It is not supersonic but it is plenty faster than a glider: Yes, the glider reference is to it’s lift to drag ratio. As a jet, it’s really slow although initial climb is impressive due to the wing configuration. Taiwan was flying these over China for during the 60’s and 70’s. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/36 "2008-10-07T18:32:53Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I don’t get exactly what the distinction is. What’s the difference between a “spy plane” and a “surveillance plane” or an “intel plane”. Is it just the difference between overflying the other country’s airspace? If you fly over the country you’re a spy plane, if you fly next to it you’re an intel plane? > > Or what? Among other things that navy p3 was doing, was to listen in on chinese military officers who were chatting away on their cell phones, apparently none to discreetly. Its a spy plane, but a legal one as it skirts international airspace, so like the other poster says, you can annoy it to a certain degree, but shooting it down can be construed as an act of war. declan ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/37 "2008-10-07T18:34:23Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > Even though this report may be false, I don’t put it past Georgie Porgie and the extreme right wing of the Republican party to concoct some cheeky stuff that aggravates somebody out there enough for some international incident just so they can turn the attention of the electorate away from the economy back to defense, war, security and the like… > Actually, I’d be surprised if they don’t try something shortly to put McCain back in the driver seat. It’s SOP.:dubious: I would expect Israel to destroy Iran’s nuclear reactor after the elections. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/38 "2008-10-07T18:36:43Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I would expect Israel to destroy Iran’s nuclear reactor after the elections. It’s very doubtful that Israel **can** destroy any of Iran’s nuclear reactors. ---
**Author:** ![Clu-Me-In](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Clu-Me-In](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clu-Me-In)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/39 "2008-10-07T18:45:56Z")
I couldn’t really give a flying flick who destroyed what as long as they ain’t destroying anything of ours and we ain’t destroying anything of theirs. At the rate we’re going, anymore incursions or wars and we’d be spread so thin, a paramiltary outfit could take on our troops and they’d have no backup. I have no doubt that if McCain is elected, he will reinstitute the draft seeing as fewer and fewer are joining the military these days. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832/40 "2008-10-07T18:57:23Z")
> [@Clu-Me-In](#): > > I have no doubt that if McCain is elected, he will reinstitute the draft seeing as fewer and fewer are joining the military these days. IIRC, the president can’t do diddly on his own, in regards to the draft… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-forces-us-jet-to-land-in-tehran-war-imminent/466832.md?page=3)