There now is a hijack attempt based upon a personal attack that I have misinterpreted Ravenman’s comment and then reversed my argument. That is false and was not backed up. I have not reversed anything. That is a hijack. I won’t be drawn into hijacks of this topic that are nothing but personal attacks.
Again does anyone agree with Magiver that Obama has delivered new sanctions?
I cited my statement to back it up.
Now one who quit defending his flawed argument has posted a comment in redponse ti my statement that he conveniently cut in half. Desperation is setting in.
No, you can’t fucking understand what I wrote. This is the OPPOSITE of what I said with respect to new sanctions.
I’m not intending this as an insult, but is English your native tongue? Because I don’t know how to be any clearer about what I think of Magiver’s view. I wrote it out twice, and you think I’m saying something 180 degrees of what I’ve written in very simple terms. I can only think of three possibilities here: you don’t actually take the time to read and absorb what others have written, you just cue in on a few terms and pounce on them; you have some awkwardness with the language, in which case I’m happy to cut some slack; or you’re just messing with me.
You have cited something that shows that the quantity of existing sanctions against Iran has been increased within the past six months. When and Where? Has anyone seen that?
So Magiver is probably right that Obama is increasing sanctions is what Ravenman is saying despite the fact that there has been no increase in sanctions for over a year? And the misunderstanding is supposedly mine?
I never once said Obama instituted new sanctions. I don’t believe he did, and I don’t think that’s Magiver’s point either. I’m saying Obama ratcheted up sanctions on Iran while still being able to say he didn’t institute new sanctions. The White House is effectively splitting hairs, and I don’t know how to explain that to someone who just is unable to understand nuances in foreign policy.
You’ve been saying that Obama is simply increasing the application of existing sanctions and not implementing new ones. I think you said you endorse this because they are not new sanctions. You want us to cite what you have been saying for three pages, because you no longer believe what you’ve been saying for the last three pages?
No, I won’t do that.
Let’s recall the OP:
The topic is whether additional sanctions should be imposed. The topic is not whether existing sanctions should be enforced. But now two posters are arguing that enforcing existing sanctions is the same as imposing new sanctions because that is what Obama is doing.
I say they are different. Does anyone else dissagree?
No, it would be accurate to state that Ive been saying that Obama is enforcing existing sanctions as he should. Obama is, from what I’ve read, vehemently opposed to implementation of new ones. No new sanctions have been dwlivered by Obama. Bring on whatever you think you got.
If I am whipping your twice a day, and promise not to subject you to new forms of abuse, but increase the whipping to three times a day, have I kept my promise?
If ratcheting up sanctions on Iran is the same as stepping up enforcement of existing sanctions then I agree with that. If you think it is delivering new sanctions as Magiver is claiming then I don’t agree at all. And that has been my argument all along.
There are no new delivered sanctions. There has been some stepped up enforcement of existing sanctions and I have stated that Obama is correct to enforce existing sanctions.
Ahhhhh. Do you have a source where the P5+1 promised not to enforce existing sanctions as part of this deal.
I have addressed that earlier.
No, I don’t have a cite for the P5+1 promising to eliminate all whippings and abuse. Again, you simply aren’t understanding common speech.
Why has it taken several dozen posts to get this point across?
You are posting in English.
Magiver is alone in claiming that Obama has delivered new sanctions against Iran. That is because there is no way that anyone can say that he did.
Is that a metaphor for Obama’s increase in the crackdown on violators of existing sanctions on Iran by the P5+1?
Nuance and spin can save countless lives.
Iran says new sanctions are a deal breaker. Obama is pressed by hard-liners here to add new sanctions, even offered the opinion that new sanctions is the more moderate course when compared to the more efficacious option of direct military action. To appease those critics, he tightens restrictions on already extant sanctions, making life difficult for such companies who skirt the sanctions.
Saying, signaling to Iran: these are not new sanctions, these are simply an enforcement of what already exists, therefore, there is no cause for Iran to feel as if the deal has been broken. Pure spin, offered first of all to save face on both sides, and secondly to reassure the Iranians that Obama is seriously interested in a peaceful settlement and not simply going through the motions.
Does Iran have hardliners as well? Of course they do, that strain of idiot plagues all races and creeds of mankind. Its not just that they refuse to learn from history, and are doomed to repeat it, but they keep dragging the rest of us along!
So, what might we reasonably surmise that the Iranian hardliners are saying? That the US is simply playing the prelude to a war, there is no sincerity in our offers, we are interested only in surrender. (Wherever do they get such notions?) The sane party (May the Goddess bless them and keep then secure to Her bosom all the days of their lives, amen…) make a gesture, they recall the delegation for “consultation”.
The signal is meant that they take these measures seriously, but are willing to settle for a face-saving gesture, at least for the time being, for the sake of whatever scant hope may remain.
And scant hope it is, too. But that scant hope is there because men on both sides put that hope there, and protected it in the face of resistance. That such men exist, hope for peace exists. Should the day come when there are no such people left, might as well start digging holes.
Here are several posts in English:
My response to Magiver:
I think it would be more helpful if you requoted the entire thread, just in case someone missed something.