I see Ravenman could not respond to the above. Still have problems with the concept if IF.
Get a room, you guys.
Why? Because you failed to convince someone that your analysis is correct? Them’s the breaks, and if you’re going to hang around here longer than a month, you might need to get used to that.
No, it’s not convincing someone of anything that is particularly important. Discussions don’t need to be concluded with that as the goal. The “waste” is in throwing pearls before swine.
Thanks for the encouragement.
I don’t remember that I ever used the phrase “imperialist America”. Don’t think you do either. If words are to be put in my mouth, I’d much prefer that I put them there, if its all the same to you.
Its a relic of a bygone era, when America ruthlessly and treacherously betrayed the Filipino revolution, rather than the sleek and modern era where we commit a Seinfeld War, a war about nothing.
But tell me. Are they rude and thoughtless not to pretend it never happened, as we might prefer? They have no reasonable grounds to be suspicious and wary, even hostile? Our reputation as the world’s paragon of sweet reason lies in tatters, we will have to sew our communion dress back together before we can wear it again.
Dominus vobiscum.
What relevance does it have to this debate? Take the US out of the equation and you still have the rest of the UNSC in agreement about Iran. Iran can pretend all it likes that the US is helping or hurting the process (depending on the day), but this isn’t about the US. It’s about Iran and Iran’s nuclear program and enforcing resolutions of the UNSC.
Of course you’re right, John, silly of me, really. Thinking that the most powerful country in human history with a GDP measured in trillions and a longstanding history of belligerence with Iran might actually be centrally relevant.
Whatever was I thinking?
Am I seriously being offered the proposition that if America were more conciliatory and less hostile towards Iran, it would have no meaningful effect on the situation? You gotta be kidding me…
“Take the US out of the equation”? The EQUATION? The U.S. needs to be taken out of Iran’s face. Do that and Iran will be more willing to negociate with the UN.
The same thing happened in Irak. Saddam was not willing to deal with the first UN Inspection Team because it was saturated with CIA agents. Once the UN removed the CIA from the team Saddam complied fully with the inspection.
In any case, the U.S./Israel is the reason why Iran is pursuing its nuclear program in the first place.
And so the boat tacks in a different direction, headed towards a different goalpost…
What, may I ask, has that got to do with the Iraq war? You keep coming back to all the sins the US has committed in the past, which is what Ravenman was noting. The big, bad Americans. This is not Iran vs the US. This is Iran vs The World (or damn near most of it).
I have extreme difficulties understanding why so many Americans talk about what the U.S. might have done “in the past” - as though to say “it’s fixed now”.
The planets move continuously through space in the same way the U.S. perpetuates world-wide treachery. If they ever take a break, we may some day talk about what they did “in the past”. Until then, I just don’t see it on the cards.
You’l have to ask them, because I’m not saying that. What I’m saying is that if Iran is looking for an excuse to not deal with the West, then they certainly can blame as much as they want on the US. But, if they want to be welcomed back into the community of nations, then it’s up to them to proceed. Let me repeat: They have much, much more to gain than we do. I’m having a hard time drumming up any sympathy for the Supreme Leader and his ideas of an Islamic state.
And by “Iran” here, I mean the government.
Insults directed against other posters are not appropriate outside The BBQ Pit forum.
Do not do this again.
[ /Moderating ]
The U.S. is standing in the way of better cooperation between Iran and the UN. Imagine you’re over 50 and interested in converting to Judaism but the Rabbi insists you keep kosher and whack off the end of your prick. Motso balls and gefilte fish might be OK but maybe you want to keep your pecker intact, thinking it a price too high to pay … and maybe Iran would rather not put itself into another position where the U.S. can destroy them again … a price too high to pay.
Look at the Iranian government and its population in American terms. Americans were not REALLY much concerned whether or not Saddam had WMD’s. Americans were more impressed with Bush’s hard-nose “Don’t mess with me” attitude and that he was willing to kill a lot of people. Now, the reason (besides the general, national inferiority complex) was that they thought they had been done wrong. It wasn’t true of course, but that’s what they believed.
Iran has most certainly been done wrong and it’s the American government (with enormous public support by its population) that is the direct perpetrator. Do you think the Iranian government or its population should make no demands, demand no guarantees? What part of the government-slash-population do you think is difficult to understand? I’m not asking you if you send money and arms … just to understand.
You must be joking. I made no statement to any poster and if you see such a common expression as a personal insult then it’s just as well that you ban me today and get it over with. I wouldn’t really want to be a member of any forum that is so childish.
I’ll hold the door so it doesn’t hit you on the way out.
In such circumstances I usually use the bathroom window.
Aren’t we? How often through history do we see people rallying blindly to their leadership when they can be sold the notion of an embattled people refusing to yield to a great evil? Suppose they didn’t have the Great Satan to blame, what happens then, do you imagine?
A peaceful accord with the US may very well spell the doom of this theocracy you abhor with such pious firmness. Icing on the Peace Cake, if it needed any. Our sane counterparts in this kabuki dance of diplomacy know that. Their hardliner enemies know it too, and John Bolton and others of their ilk are the best friends they ever had.
And may the Baby Jesus shut thier mouths and open their minds, amen.
Heh, just picturing a U.S. President at a press conference who, when asked about Iran’s latest anti-west statement, just shrugs and says “Yeah, whatever.”
Your claim of not addressing “any poster” is disingenuous, at best.
I am not going to bother banning you if you are going to leave, anyway, but you will be banned if you insist on violating board rules and then denying your actions–that is the actual “childish” behavior, here.
[ /Moderating ]