# Iran Obama's 'only chance of success' **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 16, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682 "2010-05-16T21:31:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/101 "2010-05-21T01:42:24Z")
Ah, so now we don’t just have ninjas in Iran, but they’re actively killing innocent people. Damn those ninjas. Of course, the link you provided only mentions “covert operations against Iran to destabilize the country’s religious leadership, gather intelligence about Iran’s suspected nuclear-weapons program and support the minority Ahwazi Arab and Baluchi groups and other dissident organizations. It also includes the capture and assassination of targeted “high value Al Queda targets” located within Iranian Borders” Still no killing of innocents, but maybe we should check with Ninja Command? ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/102 "2010-05-21T01:50:37Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Ah, so now we don’t just have ninjas in Iran, but they’re actively killing innocent people. Damn those ninjas. > > Of course, the link you provided only mentions “covert operations against Iran to destabilize the country’s religious leadership, gather intelligence about Iran’s suspected nuclear-weapons program and support the minority Ahwazi Arab and Baluchi groups and other dissident organizations. It also includes the capture and assassination of targeted “high value Al Queda targets” located within Iranian Borders” > > Still no killing of innocents, but maybe we should check with Ninja Command? I said there were zillions of links detailing our meddling in other countries internal affairs. I provided only one. specific to the topic it mentioned. what? you want me to think for you, spoon feed you too?? provide all truth in one sentence for you…? don’t think you would believe even then, even it it were so possible. sorry ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/103 "2010-05-21T02:00:43Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > you want me to think for you Thank you, but no. I have a fondness for paragraphs. ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/104 "2010-05-21T02:27:33Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Thank you, but no. I have a fondness for paragraphs. and what i aspire to, leaves you cold, unflinching, right? mainly pure thought and emotion, entwined, neither claiming ascendancy over the other. Sentence structure practically irrelevant. much more important, a fondness for truth, no matter how you have to tell of it, no matter what format. Actually, i prefer Zen, but if you don’t understand me now, Zen would only confuse you further. therefore no point pursing it huh? a pity… There are no paragraphs, no sentences, all is thought and emotion, meanwhile, back to the substance of Justification for war. try this > **[Joint Special Operations Command](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Special_Operations_Command)** > > The Joint Special Operations Command (JSOC) is a joint component command of the United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) and is charged with studying special operations requirements and techniques to ensure interoperability and equipment standardization, to plan and conduct special operations exercises and training, to develop joint special operations tactics, and to execute special operations missions worldwide. It was established in 1980 on recommendation of Colonel Charlie Beckwi... excerpt. IA domestic ops go far beyond Shahzad probe People upset about the CIA’s involvement in domestic interrogations might be surprised to learn that the spy agency’s most explosive growth in recent years has been right here in the USA – not in the back alleys of Karachi or in the mountains of Afghanistan. According to some insider estimates, most of the CIA’s recruitment of foreign spies now takes place in the United States. Hundreds of CIA officers working out of cover offices and companies in areas where foreign students and scientists abound – such as Boston, Los Angeles, Silicon Valley and the like – try to make contact with their marks and send them back home as spies. Advocates say it’s a lot easier, and safer, than trying to recruit agents in places like China, under the scrutiny of Beijing’s secret police and counterspy service, not to mention in places like the Middle East and Pakistan. But the strategy has its critics, too, especially former CIA operations officers who say the spy agency is playing it too safe – and not delivering the goods to U.S. commanders who need strong intelligence in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan. “In response to criticism that more than 90 percent of its officers live and work entirely within the United States, and that the remainder work within American embassies, the CIA periodically promises to get more officers under cover, on the street, in foreign countries,” a former CIA officer who uses the pseudonym Ishmael Jones told me in April. But it doesn’t, he maintains. article continues. basically how active the CIA is at home on American soil as it is destabalising foreign GOVTS. You extremely happy yet as to how ‘safe’ you are? Zan ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/105 "2010-05-21T02:53:34Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > There are no paragraphs, no sentences Yah, that’s the thing you might want to work on in a medium where communication is 100% written. ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/106 "2010-05-21T08:35:23Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Yah, that’s the thing you might want to work on in a medium where communication is 100% written. not at all, it gets much much worse, or better, depending upon how you look at it… I often write in Haiku, as i understand it of course. Get shot to pieces for that too, by ppl who simply don’t want to understand, nor care… or are simple unable to. which applies to you? I like the abstract, where you can deal with pain, like its a fluid medium, like blood, life, saturated in it. and death. flows around you, and if you let it, thro you. In this case, which i am trying to address, the pain we inflict upon the ME. Pick your country, we decimate them all, no prejudice. all are accessible to cruise missiles, Predator drones… Nukes if you have to, self preservation of course, perfectly acceptable, of course. How about you address just one, of many, of the questions I have asked. which you seem to choose to ignore… why? here is just one of many I have posted. What will it take you to oppose the war/s we wage? if they start drafting you? will that do it? I asked this before, no one replied… why? my basic argument as i 1st stated it, has not changed. The US needs to stop killing ppl, stop tying to dominate, exert its will over all others. Back to the start. [http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/breaking-news/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/story-e6freonf-1225853431215](http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/breaking-news/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/story-e6freonf-1225853431215) Iran Obama’s ‘only chance of success’ IRANIAN President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said overnight that Iran was the “only chance” for his US counterpart Barack Obama to succeed after the crises Washington has faced in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mr Ahmadinejad also said that he is currently drafting a letter to Mr Obama which will be “published in due time”. “Mr Obama has only one chance and that is Iran. This is not emotional talk but scientific. He has but one place to say that ‘I made a change and I turned over the world equation’ and that is Iran,” Mr Ahmadinejad said in a live interview on state television. "He has but one chance to stay as head of the state and succeed. Obama cannot do anything in Palestine. He has no chance. What can he do in Iraq? Nothing. And Afghanistan is too complicated. “The best way for him is to accept and respect Iran and enter into co-operation. Many new opportunities will be created for him.” Seems simple enough, get off the high horse of the power of all your weapons. sit down and talk… Zanthor ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/107 "2010-05-21T10:48:53Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > 1/ Awesome, just like Veitnam, Iraq, etc etc. > Annihilate the place, totally destabalise it, kill a million or so, > achieve virtually nothing, then leave? > Is that it, the best you could do?? > Install fragile corrupt US friendly puppet regimes, > then walk away? > You should not have gone there in the 1st place… > > Just say, What it the above were an objective all in its own right?. > Mission accomplished??? > Does it feel good?, congratulatory pats on each others backs? No need frothing at me; I thought I’d made it clear I thought the Iraq war was a stupid thing. > [@](#): > > escalation was NOT necessary, The West should not have gone their in the 1st place. The escalation was necessary since we were already there. It remains to be seen whether us going in the first place was a good idea. > [@](#): > > Regimes changes, interfering in another countries politics is NOT our business. Ah yes…because Iran doesn’t do that at all. > [@](#): > > 3/ Only hope you are correct, I think you are not, I would think its inevitable, for all kinds of reasons. > Dwindling Oil supplies right up there, also the instability of the Nuke possessing Govt. > The West will only go there, ‘to lend a hand’ of course. > If you don’t see this, i think the forest obscures your view of the trees. > How many $US millions of millions has the West supplied Pakistan, weapons etc, to what avail. > Their control is fragmenting. > America will have to ‘assist’ > **Its what the West does**.. Now whose view of the trees is obscured? > [@](#): > > One point tho, about the last question you asked. > about homosexuals and the Bahai in Iran. > > 2 things, > 1/ I am not God, I do not claim to know absolute right and wrong. > > I pointed this out to you when i mentioned how the German ppl regarded Hitler as a Liberator, a Savior, promised the final solution for a ppl that have been persecuted all thro the world, esp. all of Europe for centuries. > See Shakespeare’s, Merchant of Venice for example. > Are you asking wether i personally approve of what Hitler did? > Of course not, I said the great wrongness and rightness depends on wether you happen to be one of them or us. > Rightness and wrong therefore relative, not complete. Did you just compare modern-day Iran with Nazi Germany? Is that meant to support your argument of Iran as a “moderate” country? > [@](#): > > Was the American military right to have a policy of persecution and suppression of Gay ppl in its military?. Nope. > [@](#): > > Some great thinker said, i looked in the mirror and saw my enemy, it was me. [Walt Kelly](http://www.igopogo.com/we_have_met.htm). > [@](#): > > I think the invasion of Iran much less likely than i did years ago when the whole sorry mess began. > If the war in Iraq and Afghanistan have of gone better? > Perhaps the West will have to settle for bombing the crap out of Iran, not invade, to pacify Israel.. I predict the US will do nothing but talk and impose economic sanctions. Bombing or invading Iran would only inflame the hardliners - Obama knows this even if Bush didn’t - and would raise the price of oil dramatically. As long as Iran doesn’t actively provoke conflict, it won’t happen. And Israel has shown itself capable of bombing place all on its own. > [@](#): > > But I do think ‘securing Pakistan’ will become a necessity ( sic ) Again, the US will not invade. It may prop up a questionable government (see: Musharraf) to ensure a “friendly” administration but they don’t want to run the place outright. ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/108 "2010-05-21T11:21:07Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > No need frothing at me; I thought I’d made it clear I thought the Iraq war was a stupid thing. > The escalation was necessary since we were already there. It remains to be seen whether us going in the first place was a good idea. > Ah yes…because Iran doesn’t do that at all. > Now whose view of the trees is obscured? > > Did you just compare modern-day Iran with Nazi Germany? Is that meant to support your argument of Iran as a “moderate” country? > > Nope. > [Walt Kelly](http://www.igopogo.com/we_have_met.htm). > > I predict the US will do nothing but talk and impose economic sanctions. Bombing or invading Iran would only inflame the hardliners - Obama knows this even if Bush didn’t - and would raise the price of oil dramatically. As long as Iran doesn’t actively provoke conflict, it won’t happen. > > And Israel has shown itself capable of bombing place all on its own. > Again, the US will not invade. It may prop up a questionable government (see: Musharraf) to ensure a “friendly” administration but they don’t want to run the place outright. war escalation is not ever and never was nor is necessary. If i was you i would hang my head in shame, impale myself on the nearest piercing object in abject humility, not that it would help much, but it would show you care about their deaths, directly caused by us, and it would be gesture of accountability. acceptance of how the West stuffed up. That we could be human enough to accept any portion, however small, of the huge blame that is directly attributed to us… it would be more honorable than continuing the slaughter of innocents. claiming righteousness. No I actually compared the US foreign policy to Nazi Germany. end result the same, no matter how you want to dress it up in niceness of ‘freedom’ your whole county ablaze with energy consumption, the rest of the world strangely dark and quiet.. Is this Kindergarten? when the basic truths need to be explained, as if they are not already glaringly and painfully obvious? quote. And Israel has shown itself capable of bombing place all on its own. end quote.. sure, with the US’s tactic approval AND with weapons supplied by the US… this is all ‘kosher’ to you? its what need to be done. no regrets? at all? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/109 "2010-05-22T01:12:10Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > If i was you i would hang my head in shame, impale myself on the nearest piercing object in abject humility, > not that it would help much, but it would show you care about their deaths, directly caused by us, and it would be gesture of accountability. > acceptance of how the West stuffed up. You are free to do whatever you wish to express your personal feelings. You are not free to post hateful and insulting remarks in this forum. Back off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/110 "2010-05-22T02:28:53Z")
> [@Camus](#): > > and allegedly the limited support it has provided the Taliban in recent years. Did Iran provide any support to the Talibans recently? While the Talibans were in power they consistently supported armed opposition to them in south-western Afghanistan. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/111 "2010-05-22T03:40:08Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Did Iran provide any support to the Talibans recently? > > While the Talibans were in power they consistently supported armed opposition to them in south-western Afghanistan. 😕 Before 2001, Iran was an enemy of the Taliban, but recently, there have been reports that the Taliban [have](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/07/eveningnews/main5370148.shtml) [Iranian arms](http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/05/30/iran.taliban/index.html) and even are [training Taliban fighters in Iran itself](http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/03/23/iran.taliban/index.html?eref=rss_topstories&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+Top+Stories%29). ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/112 "2010-05-23T08:38:59Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You are free to do whatever you wish to express your personal feelings. > > You are not free to post hateful and insulting remarks in this forum. > > Back off. > > [/Moderating] Not hateful at all. Just an honest observation, from the heart, no malice intended at all. I already told you, I despise hatred, I think the correct term is ‘fall on your sword’ in this case in abject apology. atonement, accountability, etc etc, meant figuratively, NOT literally!!! IE go to them thar enemy, say, we stuffed up, what can we do for you ( NOT TO YOU ) to help set things right?. Its called Humility, Compassion, Empathy. Look these simple things up. I honestly think this would help appease the hatred we have provoked. from the enemies we create. BTW, some basic guidelines. When I say "we’ I mean the West generally, Not me, nor you personally, When I say ‘you’ I mean your particular country, whatever and whichever it is, your foreign policy… why on Earth would i mean you personally, did you personally sell $zillions weapons all over the world? etc etc, invade whole countries all by yourself??? Sheez News Flash, its NOT about you or me personally, Most of us are simply onlookers, carers, or… ( fill in the gaps here as the cap fits ) Which exactly are you?, Zanthor ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/113 "2010-05-23T09:09:23Z")
What really matters? Our wishing to keep our boot at Iran’s neck? tighten the stranglehold? or at least attempt to act with at least a pretense of a degree of decency? Take the Deal, Mr. President [http://www.creators.com/opinion/pat-buchanan.html](http://www.creators.com/opinion/pat-buchanan.html) excerpt. If Barack Obama is sincere in his policy of “no nukes in Iran — no war with Iran,” he will halt this rude dismissal of the offer Tehran just made to ship half its stockpile of uranium to Turkey. Consider what President Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollah himself have just committed to do. Iran will deliver 1,200 kilograms, well over a ton, of its 2-ton stockpile of low-enriched uranium (LEU) to Turkey. In return, Iran will receive, in a year, 120 kilograms of fuel rods for its U.S.-built reactor that produces medical isotopes for treating cancer patients. Not only did Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey and President Lula da Silva of Brazil put their prestige on the line by flying to Tehran, the deal they got is a near-exact replica of the deal Obama offered Iran eight months ago. Why is President Obama slapping it away? Does he not want a deal? Has he already decided on the sanctions road that leads to war? snip. To the world today, the United States appears enraged that Iran is responding to America’s own offer, that it is we who do not want a peaceful resolution, that we and the Israelis are as hell-bent on war and “regime change” in Iran as George W. Bush was on war and regime change in Iraq. While the Brazilians and Turks have surely complicated Hillary’s diplomacy, their motives are not necessarily sinister or malevolent. article continues… Pigs, three different ones, all hell bent on control, manipulation of public consent, manufacturing consent for war… ( see. Pink Floyd, same title ) Zan ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/114 "2010-05-23T09:18:25Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > BTW, some basic guidelines. > When I say "we’ I mean the West generally, Not me, nor you personally, > > When I say ‘you’ I mean your particular country, whatever and whichever it is, your foreign policy… Here are some better guidelines: Don’t post in cryptic phrases that can be construed to mean many different things. Think about what you are trying to say to a wide and diverse audience and use complete sentences with specific nouns to convey those thoughts with the least possible confusion. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/115 "2010-05-23T09:24:51Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > Take the Deal, Mr. President If I wanted to talk with Pat Buchanan (I really don’t) I’d go find somewhere that he’s posting. I’m not quite sure why you’re providing his subjective opinion, anyway, except that perhaps he writes in complete sentences which are organized into paragraphs. Of course, this nonsense is making the rounds but it’s hollow and laughable. The IAEA has repeatedly said that as long as Iran stonewalls it and refuses to cooperate, there is no way that we can verify non-diversion of nuclear materials or the absence of a weapons program. Sending out some of the declared nuclear material does nothing about that issue, and is nothing but a PR offensive. And one that, strangely, some folks seem to be unable to get enough of… even though it has nothing, at all, to do with the issues that are actually under discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/116 "2010-05-23T09:36:17Z")
Qoute Here are some better guidelines: Don’t post in cryptic phrases that can be construed to mean many different things. Think about what you are trying to say to a wide and diverse audience and use complete sentences with specific nouns to convey those thoughts with the least possible confusion. end quote. Guidelines? Nouns? next you will be asking me to choose sides and i simply cannot, will not. Confusion? you think why we wage war upon the whole ME NOT confusing? why should confusion be excluded??? Guidelines… is that like read YOUR instructions when all else fails? to play in your game? otherwise access denied, sorry, Guidelines entrap, constrict. What I write is meant to be cryptic. for me its Zen. you either see it or you don’t. understand or not. its all ok, you are were you are meant to be, right here, right now. I write to probe thought, help encourage Empathy… its meant to be a search for understanding. You think Enlightenment should be a given? or hungered for, searched for…? just curious is all… Besides, I write on multiple layers, OUR side and theirs ( as i imagine it of course ) each one, each Soul on this planet valid, has a right to exist, valid all on its own, we should not just kill them, just cos they are different… Kapeche.? You want to try addressing the topic and not continue to make it all about you and me? how you decide how i should think and write,… to to plz you? be acceptable to you? Zanthor ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2010, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/117 "2010-05-23T09:40:57Z")
sorry, my mistake ---
**Author:** ![Zanthor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e19b73/32.png) [@Zanthor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zanthor)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/118 "2010-05-25T06:48:17Z")
> [@Zanthor](#): > > sorry, my mistake Here is a funny thing. Pat Buchanan, like Bill O’Rielly, are virtually unheard of by mainstream public news sources. here down under. Think maybe we have heard their name mentioned, somewhere, not really important tho… easily dismissed. I had zero knowledge that Pat Buchanan was Conservative. I read his post ( that I linked to ) it seemed perfectly sound, reasonable, Obamba cannot have it both ways. Read, ‘take the deal’ which to me seemed dammed good advice. .. now, if he is actually Conservative, which i understand in America, means pro war, then what is he on about? Taking a liberal stance just to throw dirt on Obamba…? what gives, pray tell…? if you can explain the intricacies of what appears as ‘bait and switch’, or smoke and mirrors, of American politics, i would appreciate it. Thanx in advance Zan ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/119 "2010-05-25T08:27:02Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > So, because we’re struggling to pacify Afghanistan, we’re going to invade and topple Pakistan. Because fighting Pakistan, being 10 times richer and more populated than Afghanistan, would be so much easier than fighting Afghanistan. > > Look, you answered your own question. We’re having trouble fighting a few half-assed warlords in Afghanistan. How the fuck are we supposed to fight Pakistan too? It’s impossible. And THAT’S WHY WE’RE NOT GOING TO FIGHT A WAR AGAINST PAKISTAN. you really believe you are fighting a few half assed warlords!! 😃 Karzai’s brother is THE biggest drug warlord. You PAY these warlords!! The Afghani’s hate the USA period. Not just a few half ass warlords, the entire country hate the USA. The year the Taliban were in power there was zero poppy cultivation!! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2010, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682/120 "2010-05-25T09:11:30Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > The Afghani’s hate the USA period. Not just a few half ass warlords, the entire country hate the USA. [Again your claims are totally divorced from reality.](http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/afghanistan-abc-news-national-survey-poll-show-support/story?id=9511961) > [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > The year the Taliban were in power there was zero poppy cultivation!! Yet again, another one of your claims has nothing to do with reality. [In 1999 provinces under the Taliban’s control accounted for 75% of the world’s opium supply.](http://www.cfr.org/publication/21372/good_and_bad_news_about_afghan_opium.html) And before 2000, quite aside from opposing the opium trade, the Taliban allowed it and taxed it to provide revenue. [And, of course, the Afghani population overwhelmingly rejected the Taliban and supported US intervention.](http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/brasiapacificra/155.php?nid=&id=&pnt=155&lb=bras) It seems you need a more accurate source to gain information about the subjects you’re talking about. suggest not using whatever the one is that you’re currently using…ever again. But what do I know, everybody knows that Americans who don’t get their information from Iran’s official propaganda network simply can’t accept truth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-obamas-only-chance-of-success/539682.md?page=7)