Iran, Sanctions, and the Atom Bomb

[madsircool]

@Habeed

She hasn’t done anything yet, just has used her new prosperity to upgrade her military to modern standards appropriate for defense of a nation of that size and wealth. The individual people on the street collectively love Apple products and have been as a nation copying all the good stuff they can from the USA and Europe.

While some of this copying seems bad - counterfeit goods and the like - other parts of it seem like a very positive development. China has copied the look of Apple stores, whole towns, architecture, art, ideas, they send millions of their citizens to Western schools…

I have to hope that means that while China is simultaneously gaining the means to be a threat, at the same time, this kind of blending of cultures will hopefully remove the motive. You can’t dehumanize and murder by the millions a culture that you love and shamelessly steal from…probably…

Not true. Google Spratley Islands and South China Sea. Just because the shrinking US media doesn’t cover something doesnt mean it isn’t happening.

[Habeed]

@madsircool

Not true. Google Spratley Islands and South China Sea. Just because the shrinking US media doesn’t cover something doesnt mean it isn’t happening.

I know about that, no need to google. The USA has various overseas military bases, China is doing the same thing. In fact, from that metric, the USA is far more aggressive and willing to start stuff than China…

[ralph124c]

@foolsguinea

Ah, yes, the, “It’s all about us,” paranoid Zionist line. This probably says more about Israeli and US apocalyptic fantasies than about Iran. As if Iranians really have nothing better to do than to start a suicidal war on a country they don’t even border to impress a bunch of Arab tribesmen they despise!

Are there a few screwball apocalyptic types in the Iranian populace, waiting for the Hidden Imam to return and call them to battle? Sure.
Are they driving Iranian foreign policy? Prove it.

Possibly, but continuing to hurl provocative statements is not a wise thing to do. Nasser (Egypt) was fond of making speeches in which he threatened to drive the Zionists into the sea. one day he woke up and found his airforce destroyed-he was most upset.

[Ravenman]

@Habeed

I know about that, no need to google. The USA has various overseas military bases, China is doing the same thing. In fact, from that metric, the USA is far more aggressive and willing to start stuff than China…

You know a lot of those islands are claimed by other countries? China is going in and taking them.

Say what you will about US overseas bases, with the recent exceptions of Iraq and Afghanistan, the Americans are virtually always invited to establish bases in some country or another. That isn’t what China is doing.

[Quimby]

The point of the sanctions was to force them to negotiate. They were a means to an end and worked as designed.

Allowing Iran to enter the world economy will actually make us safer. By making America a market they can sell to it gives them a disincentive from wanting us to be destroyed. Once the 10 years are up (and even the opponents of the deal seem t be admitting the deal itself will work while it is in effect since every scare ad I have seen says “After 10 years Iran will…”) they will be knee deep in the word economy and not care about bombs anymore.

Every learned person who has commented has said this is a good deal. The people who are against mostly admit to have not even reading it and/or have wanted to bomb Iran for decades now.

[Trinopus]

@madsircool

What??? China is more threatening than ever. She is expanding her military and is aggressive with her neighbors. Maoist China was a paper tiger.

Not compared to decades past. Remember the USSR/Chinese Amur/Ussuri border battles, or the Chinese/Indian war? (Also the Chinese/Vietnam war, but Vietnam started that one.)

China today is much more interested in trade profits than military adventures.

[Esox_Lucius]

@Quimby

The point of the sanctions was to force them to negotiate. They were a means to an end and worked as designed.

And it was done without dropping a single bomb or putting a single life in jeopardy. I remember the good ol’ days when war was generally considered bad. Now it’s the default option for a significant part of the population, even with a peaceful alternative staring them in the face.

[Leaper]

@Hail_Ants

Iran getting the bomb isn’t about MAD or attacking the US directly at all. That would be universally condemned, not to mention military & national suicide.

It’s about Iran trying to become the first declared Middle Eastern nuclear power and them eventually forcing the rest of the muslim world to choose sides by them threatening to and/or actually nuking their common sworn enemy, Israel (and by proxy the US). Israel has always known this and they can and will preemptively strike Iran (with conventional weapons) to prevent it just as they did with Iraq 35 years ago. And this would actually be the best case scenario for potentially nuclear-armed Iranians, because if things ever escalate to a Mid-East nuclear exchange Israel will literally wipe Iran (and any other of its stated allies) off the map for a generation or two. Israel has an arsenal of hundreds of modern thermonuclear-tipped IRBMs that cannot be defended against.

Sorry, but I don’t believe most conservative politicians or pundits care one whit about Israel. All they care about is the belief that keeping them in existence means Jesus will come back (which makes no sense — why would a true believer have to WORK to make a PROPHECY come true?). If it weren’t for that, I honestly don’t think the vast majority of them would give a damn. They certainly wouldn’t go crazy accusing anyone who even mildly questions Israel’s actions anti-Semitic.