# Iran sponsors Holocaust cartoon contest **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 7, 2006, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351 "2006-02-07T05:34:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/1 "2006-02-07T05:34:49Z")
Doesn’t look like these cartoon wars are going to end anytime soon. Will this be a fair test of the West’s ability to with and accept mockery of serious subjects or is this apples and Zebras re any comparison to the cartoons about Mohammed? [IRAN’S largest selling newspaper announced today it was holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed…](http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18066746-1702,00.html?from=rss) ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/2 "2006-02-07T05:41:02Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Doesn’t look like these cartoon wars are going to end anytime soon. Will this be a fair test of the West’s ability to with and accept mockery of serious subjects or is this apples and Zebras re any comparison to the cartoons about Mohammed? > > [IRAN’S largest selling newspaper announced today it was holding a contest on cartoons of the Holocaust in response to the publishing in European papers of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed…](http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,18066746-1702,00.html?from=rss) it’s right on point. Bring it on. No one has a right to enlist the power of the state to prevent others from offending through their speech. The cure is exponentially worse than the disease. (Iran, of course, is indirectly highlighting the absurdity of the German laws criminalizing “holocaust denial”, as if speaking an historical untruth can be a crime. I have no doubt (especially given Ahmedinajab’s (sp?) recent ravings on the topic, that among the cartoons will be many with that thrust.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/3 "2006-02-07T05:43:27Z")
OK, but it should be an **animated** cartoon. With classic Disney characters! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/4 "2006-02-07T08:04:49Z")
\It’s Afghanistanimation\ ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/5 "2006-02-07T08:24:55Z")
It’s a step up from burning embassies and sawing the heads off of innocents. Sooooooooooo…do the losing cartoonists get their hands chopped off? Or maybe their heads can be sawed off. The distinction here is that the mainstream Danes don’t feel any particular animus against the muslims, save when they’re trying to impose Sharia on everybody, or murdering “offensive” movie directors. The party line in Iran appears to be along the lines of: either the Holocaust is a myth, or the Holocaust was a good idea. That’s what these people don’t get: “respect” for Islam in a secular society isn’t submission, and certainly isn’t public acceptance of islamic taboos. These people don’t respect non-Islamic religions in their countries, don’t tolerate religious freedom in their countries, yet are the first in line at even a hint of intolerance for Islam. That is, one might argue that but a fringe of the Danish press, and Danes, are rabidly anti-Mulsim, but that the mainstream arab is at best mildly antipathetic towards the Jew. And let me hazard a prediction that these Arab Street cartoonists will focus on the 6 or so million Jewish dead, and not on the 7 or so million others… Even so, they’re learning: ideas in response to ideas. If we’re lucky, we can convert the whole thing to a Cartoon War, and Bush can have a War on Terroristic Cartoons, with a Department of Homeland Cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/6 "2006-02-07T08:49:47Z")
Important point: > [@](#): > > “The Western papers printed these sacrilegious cartoons on the pretext of freedom of expression, so let’s see if they mean what they say and also print these Holocaust cartoons,” he said. Just because a paper chooses to exercise freedom to publish one item, doesn’t mean it is necessarily stifling freedom of expression if it declines to publish another. The paper is under no editorial obligation to publish _just any old bollocks_ that people foist upon it. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/7 "2006-02-07T09:01:08Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Important point: > > Just because a paper chooses to exercise freedom to publish one item, doesn’t mean it is necessarily stifling freedom of expression if it declines to publish another. > The paper is under no editorial obligation to publish _just any old bollocks_ that people foist upon it. Although you’d have to admit that the published cartoons were certainly closer to _just any old bollocks_ than they were to quality cartooning. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/8 "2006-02-07T09:21:21Z")
> [@don't ask](#): > > Although you’d have to admit that the published cartoons were certainly closer to _just any old bollocks_ than they were to quality cartooning. I agree, but the decision to publish something or not is an editorial one on the part of the newspaper, not evidence of some vast conspiracy to attack [insert name of ‘oppressed’ entity here]. If the papers print the holocaust cartoons, it proves nothing; if they decide not to print them, it proves nothing. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/9 "2006-02-07T09:21:24Z")
I don’t see why the Jewish people have to be dragged into it again. I _do_ see a difference between a _Danish_ cartoonist - who ISN’T a muslim - drawing a cartoon in a _Danish_ paper, about Mohammed who was a cruel warlord and who was probably having an epilectic fit and wrote a book with utter nonsense in it. [in the eyes of an unbeliever] – and the 6 million victims of another cruel idiot, who DID exist. Which can be proved, because we have all the evidence and even some survivors. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/10 "2006-02-07T10:47:34Z")
The subject matter isn’t quite equivalent, not that I’m bothered. Equivalence would be Abraham, Jesus or perhaps God himself being lampooned, all of which happen on a regular basis on _eg._ South Park, whereas this proposes lampooning a specific _event_ (perhaps on a historically inaccurate basis). After this round of cartoons (which I don’t protest beyond not being interested), parity would be restored by another round in which Abraham, Jesus or God were lampooned together with some historically inaccurate cartoons of an _event_ which the Islamic world is sensitive about like, I dunno, Mohammed getting buggered by an angel or something (“he pressed me hard”). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/11 "2006-02-07T11:18:33Z")
Speaking as someone who found (several of) the Danish Muhammad cartoons to be gratuitously offensive, insulting, anti-Muslim, and arguably sacrilegious, I think that lampooning the Holocaust in cartoons is also gratuitously offensive, insulting, and antisemitic. However, I’d say that both are equally protected on free-speech grounds. It’s true that free speech doesn’t **require** any media outlet to reprint Holocaust cartoons, any more than it was necessary to reprint the Muhammad cartoons. However, a paper that prints one but refuses to print the other will certainly be accused of being willing to offend Muslims but unwilling to offend Jews. And I really don’t see how they would counter that accusation, except with some rather sophistical-sounding argument about how the content isn’t quite equivalent. > [@gum](#): > > I do see a difference between a Danish cartoonist - who ISN’T a muslim - drawing a cartoon in a Danish paper, about Mohammed who was a cruel warlord and who was probably having an epilectic fit and wrote a book with utter nonsense in it. [in the eyes of an unbeliever] – and the 6 million victims of another cruel idiot, who DID exist. Yes, you certainly do, don’t you? However, a Muslim could just as easily respond that a cartoon that blasphemes about a religious figure is much worse than one that merely insults the suffering of ordinary human beings. Which sort of offense one considers “worse” kind of depends on the perspective of one’s offensensitivity. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/12 "2006-02-07T11:29:47Z")
Now this is very annoying. [Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons](http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1703501,00.html) > [@](#): > > Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that first published the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad that have caused a storm of protest throughout the Islamic world, refused to run drawings lampooning Jesus Christ, it has emerged today. > > The Danish daily turned down the cartoons of Christ three years ago, on the grounds that they could be offensive to readers and were not funny. > > In April 2003, Danish illustrator Christoffer Zieler submitted a series of unsolicited cartoons dealing with the resurrection of Christ to Jyllands-Posten. There may have been totally different reasons and editorial reasons for this but in the light of recent events it would have been nice to be able to point to these cartoons to show a non-Muslim bias. Unfortunately now the accusations can start flowing. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/13 "2006-02-07T11:40:33Z")
Wow… so… let me get this straight… there are _biased_ newspapers out there? I’m shocked; SHOCKED! I tell you! ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/14 "2006-02-07T11:59:59Z")
Tit for tat; what’s good for the Goose is gravy for the Gander. Frankly this is the first hint of a sense of humor I have ever seen from these people. (I presume I am going to Hell for that.) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/15 "2006-02-07T12:29:30Z")
Do you really think there’s any humour involved? It just looks like a big sulk to me. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/16 "2006-02-07T12:36:13Z")
Hard to be sure. The Islamic sense of humor is very, very different from our own. I am giving them the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/17 "2006-02-07T13:19:12Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > Now this is very annoying. > > [Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons](http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1703501,00.html) There may have been totally different reasons and editorial reasons for this but in the light of recent events it would have been nice to be able to point to these cartoons to show a non-Muslim bias. Unfortunately now the accusations can start flowing. So can we just reprint \*Son O’ God \* comics from the old \*National Lampoon \* in the New York Times and call it even? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/18 "2006-02-07T13:35:29Z")
Couldn’t we just send them a copy of [Battle Pope Comics](http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/BattlePope/BattlePope01issue.htm)? Surely they’d be willing to call it even … ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/19 "2006-02-07T14:01:45Z")
> [@Article in the OP](#): > > Iran’s hardline President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad prompted international anger when he dismissed the systematic slaughter by the Nazis of mainland Europe’s Jews as a “myth” used to justify the creation of Israel. I have very little patience or sympathy for someone who attempts to exercise freedom of speach by trying to get a newspaper to print lies (I was going to say untruths, but frankly I think lies is a better term). The opinion that the Holocaust didn’t happen isn’t an opinion at all, it’s just wrong. The opinion that it happened and was a good thing is certainly an opinion, and if folks want to submit cartoons praising the Holocaust, I say print them. I’m sure the world would love to see what the best, most witty cartoonists have to say about the Holocaust (or lack thereof). There’s that saying about giving someone enough rope, but I don’t know at this point that there’s anything that would change the sycophantic relationship we have with the Mid-East. (sorry if that got slightly off-topic, but I continue to remain disapointed that the US remains on such friendly terms with nations who continue to call for hatred towards Jews). ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2006, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351/20 "2006-02-07T14:08:48Z")
Our those who call for hatred towards Muslims for that matter. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-sponsors-holocaust-cartoon-contest/343351.md?page=2)