# Iran threatens "harm & pain" to U.S. if UN imposes sanctions **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751 "2006-03-09T22:09:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/21 "2006-03-10T01:57:11Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Do you know how many NPT signatories have uranium enrichment programs in place? I wonder how much of an outlier Iran is. As much as I don’t want them to get nukes, I have to say I understand why they’d want them. that said, in keeping with today godfather theme, it appears that g-dub, unlike michael at the italian restaurant, is coming out of the men’s room with nothing in his hand but his dick… ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/22 "2006-03-10T02:05:02Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Do you know how many NPT signatories have uranium enrichment programs in place? I wonder how much of an outlier Iran is. As much as I don’t want them to get nukes, I have to say I understand why they’d want them. I know Japan and Germany (and of course all of the official nuclear weapon states) produce their own fuel, and I would imagine that that is the norm for any country that depends on nuclear power for any sizable precentage of thier power production (after all, why would any nation want to have part of thier energy infrustructure “on loan” from a foreign power if they didn’t have to?). Which of course explains why domestic enrichment is allowed in the first place. If the US just produced all the fuel used in the world, the risk of proliferation would be far less, but no one would sign such a treaty. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/23 "2006-03-10T02:18:48Z")
Iran is suggesting it may supply the insurgency in Iraq. That way it can feed measured ‘pain and harm’ to the US through its forces there and thwart its investment. It is an optimum scenario for Iran and the worst-case for the US. There is an effectively unlimited supply of volunteers on the Iraqi side of the border prepared to use whatever aid Iran offers, how and when they offer it. Iraq has a low cost means to shape its formerly dangerous neighbour in a favourable way. It is a once in a lifetime opportunity. By contrast, the US is not in a position to escalate the conflict to include Iran. Moreover even if the will was there, the uncertainty such action would bring to global oil prices prohibits it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/24 "2006-03-10T02:31:59Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Iran is suggesting it may supply the insurgency in Iraq. That way it can feed measured ‘pain and harm’ to the US through its forces there and thwart its investment. What is this predilection with thinking Iran _might_ sponsor terrorism. They already do and are definitely in Iraq. So much so I am not sure they could ramp it up much more anyway without being truly overt about it. > [@](#): > > Iran Focus has obtained a list of 20 terrorist camps and centres run by Iran’s Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps (IRGC). > > \ > > The former IRGC officer said the camps and the training centres were under the control of the IRGC’s elite Qods Force, the extra-territorial arm of the Revolutionary Guards. > > \ > > “The scale and breadth of Qods Force operations in Iraq are far beyond what we did even during the war with Saddam”, the officer said, referring to the IRGC’s extensive activities in Iraq during the eight-year Iran-Iraq war in the 1980s. “Vast areas of Iraq are under the virtual control of the Qods Force through its Iraqi surrogates. It uses a vast array of charities, companies and other fronts to conduct its activities across Iraq”. > > SOURCE: [http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5956](http://www.iranfocus.com/modules/news/article.php?storyid=5956) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/25 "2006-03-10T02:44:04Z")
I’m hoping all this “harm and pain” talk is just an attempt at political face saving, but I’m not sure enough to bet anything on it. Iran may not have the weaponry to attack directly, or the power to seal off the sea, but they sure could step up terrorism if they chose. It’s a bad situation, and could get worse. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/26 "2006-03-10T03:14:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > What is this predilection with thinking Iran _might_ sponsor terrorism. They already do and are definitely in Iraq. So much so I am not sure they could ramp it up much more anyway without being truly overt about it. I don’t know if I’m going to say that Iran _definately_ supports terrorists in Iraq based on an MEK linked website making a claim based on the word of a single unnamed dissident. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/27 "2006-03-10T04:07:58Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > I don’t know if I’m going to say that Iran _definately_ supports terrorists in Iraq based on an MEK linked website making a claim based on the word of a single unnamed dissident. Oh c’mon! The leading state terror sponsor in the world has one of its greatest foes next door in Iraq trying to spread democracy and secularism in a country formerly dominated (politically) by Sunni Muslims while Iran is dominated by Shiite Muslims. I am SURE they are just sitting idly by to see how things turn out :rolleyes: . How about this: > [@](#): > > During her visit Ms Rice told the BBC Iran should end support of the insurgency in Iraq, and become “good neighbours” instead. > > \ > > UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, speaking separately to the BBC, insisted Britain had evidence linking Iran or Hezbollah to insurgent activity in Iraq. > > SOURCE: [BBC](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4346162.stm) > [@](#): > > As with Syria, the Iranian presence in Iraq is difficult to guage, although it certainly exists. Several Shi’ite political parties (including SCIRI and al-Da’wa, both members of the United Iraqi Alliance, the country’s dominant political coalition), have ties to Iran. The Interim Iraqi Government repeatedly expressed concern over Iraqi influence, Defence Minister Hazem Sha’alan claiming in mid-2004 that there was “clear interference in Iraqi issues by Iran” and that the latter supported terrorism in Iraq. The recalcitrant cleric Muqtada al-Sadr is widely perceived as an Iranian proxy, while in a television interview, Muayed al-Nasseri, commander of Saddam’s “Army of Muhhammad,” said his group received weapons and cash form both Iran and Syria. > > SOURCE: [Global Security](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_insurgency.htm) > [@](#): > > Iran continues to raise concerns in Washington that it is intent on destabilizing postwar Iraq. Most recently, U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad accused Iran of meddling in Iraqi affairs by financing and training militia groups that sow sectarian violence. Iran, a Shiite theocracy, also promotes Islamist politicians, including followers of Moqtada al-Sadr, a prominent Shiite cleric who controls a militia known as the Mahdi Army. > > SOURCE: [Council on Foreign Relations](http://www.cfr.org/publication/9930/) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/28 "2006-03-10T04:14:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Oh c’mon! The leading state terror sponsor in the world has one of its greatest foes next door in Iraq trying to spread democracy and secularism in a country formerly dominated (politically) by Sunni Muslims while Iran is dominated by Shiite Muslims. I am SURE they are just sitting idly by to see how things turn out :rolleyes: They may feel no need to go to the effort, since the results of our actions are likely to be a Shiite theocracy; Iran II. So far, we couldn’t have done better if we were actively trying to serve Iran’s agenda in Iraq. And as an aside, it’s high debatable that we’re trying to “spread democracy and secularism”; push American corporatism and Christianity is more like it. Not to mention attemt to set up a puppet government. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/29 "2006-03-10T04:25:14Z")
Reminds me of that great hit single from circa 1979… **♫_Bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb-bomb Iran_♫ ♫_Bomb-bomb-bomb, bomb-bomb Iran_♫** 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/30 "2006-03-10T06:11:19Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > I know Japan and Germany (and of course all of the official nuclear weapon states) produce their own fuel, and I would imagine that that is the norm for any country that depends on nuclear power for any sizable precentage of thier power production (after all, why would any nation want to have part of thier energy infrustructure “on loan” from a foreign power if they didn’t have to?). That was my point. As much as I hate to admit it, Iran has every reason in the world to demand that it be allowed to supply its own uranium needs. Still, we don’t have to react to Iran the same way we’d react to, say, Belgium wrt uranium enrichment programs. > [@](#): > > Which of course explains why domestic enrichment is allowed in the first place. If the US just produced all the fuel used in the world, the risk of proliferation would be far less, but no one would sign such a treaty. No, because there are other established nuclear powers besides the US. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/31 "2006-03-10T07:10:10Z")
_The leading state terror sponsor in the world_ I must respectfully urge the primacy of a competitor to the title. At best, Iran is the **second** leading state terror sponsor. The leading sponsor (by the way, a jealous competitor) is us. We will kneecap pretehders like they were Nancy Kerrigans ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/32 "2006-03-10T07:15:45Z")
> [@alaricthegoth](#): > > _The leading state terror sponsor in the world_ > > I must respectfully urge the primacy of a competitor to the title. At best, Iran is the **second** leading state terror sponsor. > > The leading sponsor (by the way, a jealous competitor) is us. Not really; we tend to spread terror directly, instead of sponsoring it. “Shock and Awe”, remember ? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/33 "2006-03-10T07:20:29Z")
- a puppet government.\* why do you hate japetto? \*\*why do you hate walt disney??\*\*are you a shill for the wetware lobby? who are you working for??? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/34 "2006-03-10T07:33:58Z")
> [@](#): > > BBC…Global Security…Council on Foreign Relations Once again, these are not sources with primary evidence. Instead they are all making statements or quoting politicians who have said that Iran is sponsoring terrorism. If said politicians could actually prove that, don’t you think they would supply some evidence? About two months ago, for example, a bomb killed two British soldiers in Basra and was stated to have been supplied by the Iranians by, yes, Jack Straw. The British Press (and the Iranians) effectively said “prove it”. Those allegations swiftly died away. Of course there will be people crossing the border from Iran to join the insurgency (the same is true of all the other countries bordering Iraq), but to state baldly that the Iranian government is actively pouring resources intp stoking the insurgency seems an unreasonable leap. I will admit, however, that such involvement seems likely, given previous Iranian policy- but it hasn’t yet been proven. On the other hand, of course, if they already are, then what could they do to make things worse? And as for bombing all nuclear facilities into the ground- not really possible, given that the Iranian nuclear program is believed to have gone underground and dispersed following the attempt to do exactly that by the Israelis in- oh, 197-something? And of course, if you want to bomb people for violating nuclear treaties, the US would sure to be first on your list. (Violating SALT’s I-III, violating the Nuclear Non-Profileration Treaty by giving weapons to Israel, violating the AABM with Son of Star Wars…the list goes on) ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/35 "2006-03-10T07:36:07Z")
> [@](#): > > We tend to spread terror directly… Well, don’t forget the support for the Taliban, repressive regimes, etc. etc. Some of which continues to this day. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/36 "2006-03-10T07:42:57Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > Not really; we tend to spread terror directly, instead of sponsoring it. “Shock and Awe”, remember ? I was thinking of sponsor kind of like Twenty Mule Team Borax sponsored Reagan. This interval of intercommunal bombing brought to you by the State Department, in association with Rumsfeld Productions and Arbusto Partners, a very limited partnership… also, we are not without actual clients, as long as Iyad allawi is on the steets, and there’s a schoolbus somewhere needing a good bombing… ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/37 "2006-03-10T07:51:14Z")
it is a matter of some difficulty for me to understand how a country is obliged to seal its borders against people **leaving** , whatever their purpose in doing so. I mean, what about," Mr. Ahmedinajab, **tear down this wall…**" so now what would the Great Communicator say, “Mr. Assad, twenty feet higher if you please…”? ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/38 "2006-03-10T07:59:21Z")
> [@Malodorous](#): > > I don’t know if I’m going to say that Iran _definately_ supports terrorists in Iraq based on an MEK linked website making a claim based on the word of a single unnamed dissident. My assessment of the Iranfocus site is that it is at best a propaganda front and at worst a hate site: > [@](#): > > “Do you support a UN-organised referendum in Iran on regime change?” Good grief. But what is MEK? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Clam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3bc359/32.png) [@Happy\_Clam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Clam)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/39 "2006-03-10T08:06:16Z")
Seems to me highly doubtful/impossible for the UN to have a referendum on regime change, since I think that part of the UN charter explicitly denounces attempts to change governments by military intervention. No cite, but I recall reading it in a book recently. ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751/40 "2006-03-10T08:14:41Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > My assessment of the Iranfocus site is that it is at best a propaganda front and at worst a hate site: Good grief. But what is MEK? MEK is **our** terrorist org. (in a curious bit of self-abuse (yuk yuk) we both fund AND blacklist the Mujaheddin E Khalkh) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iran-threatens-harm-pain-to-u-s-if-un-imposes-sanctions/347751.md?page=3)