# Iranian military seizes 15 British sailors in Iraqi waters **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 23, 2007, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166 "2007-03-23T13:58:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/321 "2007-04-02T20:39:23Z")
Meanwhile, [a former FBI agent who was in Iran on private business has been missing since March 8.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/02/AR2007040200653.html?hpid=topnews) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2007, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/322 "2007-04-03T14:08:38Z")
Iranian officials now say the conflict can be resolved if the British promise not to enter the waters/territory they claim, and stop using “the language of force.” Story [here.](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0704020498apr03,1,7557290.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed) Ahmadinejad is to make a televised statement [tomorrow.](http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2007-04-03T120447Z_01_L03624668_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-IRAN-AHMADINEJAD-COL.XML&archived=False) ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/323 "2007-04-04T13:14:07Z")
…and everybody turn on your TV’s, the Iranian President has announced the Sailors will be released! Right on schedule, I believe… ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/324 "2007-04-04T13:29:52Z")
Aww… how sweet. He’s releasing the troops as a “gift to Britain”. I’d have prefered gift vouchers, but it’s the thought that counts. ---
**Author:** ![Elsie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b2d939/32.png) [@Elsie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elsie)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/325 "2007-04-04T13:34:21Z")
Bit later than my schedule, but the woman set that a little off kilter. Otherwise, yep it all seemed to go predictably and without hitch; ‘game, set and match’ to the Ahmadinejad people. Played like a fiddle, Mr Blair. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/326 "2007-04-04T14:36:29Z")
Now Ahmedinejad;s meeting and greeting with the sailors (in civvies) for the cameras. Barf. I can hardly wait until those folks get home and can say what they really thought. Forcing a veil on Turner’s head really bothered me. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/327 "2007-04-04T14:43:50Z")
[QUOTE=Mehitabel] Forcing a veil on Turner’s head really bothered me. [/QUOTE] What’s so bad about this? I’m trying to imagine being in that situation. I’m imagining all males have to wear gloves in some culture. I’m imagining I’ve been kidnapped while on some kind of official business. I’m imagining I’m the only kidnapped male. I’m imagining they give me some gloves and say “You’re in our country, you have to wear these.” And I put them on. And… no big deal. What’s the big deal? I mean, being forced to do anything under threat is a pretty bad thing. But being forced to wear an inoccuous item of clothing doesn’t seem to me to be particularly bad among all the bad things that might happen when one has a gun pointed at one. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/328 "2007-04-04T14:49:57Z")
[QUOTE=Elsie] Played like a fiddle, Mr Blair. [/QUOTE] What would have prevented Blair from being a fiddle? -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/329 "2007-04-04T14:53:28Z")
[QUOTE=Mehitabel] Now Ahmedinejad;s meeting and greeting with the sailors (in civvies) for the cameras. Barf. I can hardly wait until those folks get home and can say what they really thought. Forcing a veil on Turner’s head really bothered me. [/QUOTE] Beats the hell outta hoods, shackles and bright-orange prison garbs if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/330 "2007-04-04T14:55:03Z")
BTW, I had to wear a bennie once when having dinner at Jewish friend’s house. Left me scarred for life even if no guns were involved. Barf. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/331 "2007-04-04T15:09:06Z")
Come ON–you can’t tell the difference between wearing a yarmulke at a party and having to wear a sign of female submission while being paraded in a propaganda video? The fact that she’s not a Muslim anyway and is not subject to their medieval laws of modesty didn’t matter? He’s also saying that the fact that Turner was deployed at all, a married woman with a child, shows that the West does not respect family values. :rolleyes: Yep, the idea that SHE IS A VOLUNTEER has not crossed his mind. ---
**Author:** ![Elsie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b2d939/32.png) [@Elsie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elsie)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/332 "2007-04-04T15:09:08Z")
[QUOTE=Mehitabel] I can hardly wait until those folks get home and can say what they really thought. Forcing a veil on Turner’s head really bothered me. [/QUOTE] I only saw images of her in a Hijab/head scarf, not a veil. Also didn’t know anyone was “forced” to do anything - any links appreciated ? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/333 "2007-04-04T15:17:52Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] BTW, I had to wear a bennie once when having dinner at Jewish friend’s house. Left me scarred for life even if no guns were involved. Barf. [/QUOTE] Well how do you think Bennie felt about it? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/334 "2007-04-04T16:04:05Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Well how do you think Bennie felt about it? [/QUOTE] Dunno. Didn’t ask. He looked [very pale](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098627/) and the way he was slumbered all-over the couch, I didn’t think I’d get a response. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/335 "2007-04-04T16:10:39Z")
[QUOTE=Mehitabel] Come ON–you can’t tell the difference between wearing a yarmulke at a party and having to wear a sign of female submission while being paraded in a propaganda video? The fact that she’s not a Muslim anyway and is not subject to their medieval laws of modesty didn’t matter? He’s also saying that the fact that Turner was deployed at all, a married woman with a child, shows that the West does not respect family values. :rolleyes: Yep, the idea that SHE IS A VOLUNTEER has not crossed his mind. [/QUOTE] Hardly the point I’m making. The bennie thing was a throw-away line. OTOH, my basic point seems to have gone right over your hear. I mean, all that righteous indignation because she was wearing a scarf? Please, get over it. Like I said, beats the hell out of hoods, shackles, orange prison garbs, sensory deprivation, attack dogs and all the other “niceties” the US treats their POWs with. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/336 "2007-04-04T16:18:23Z")
The scarf is trivial. The real outrage is that she was required to read an apology on Iranian TV. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/337 "2007-04-04T16:18:39Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Like I said, beats the hell out of hoods, shackles, orange prison garbs, sensory deprivation, attack dogs and all the other “niceties” the US treats their POWs with. [/QUOTE] I’m coming a bit late to the party, Red, so forgive me if I’m going over ground already covered. What is your logic for equating the British sailors with the Gitmo detainees? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/338 "2007-04-04T16:32:10Z")
Captives from either side. And the odds as far as we know, is the the Iranians had a better case (in terms of territorial waters) than the reason the majority of prisoners detained in Guantanamo – only trial in FIVE years and most of them detained by someone else’s finger pointing? Versus a two week stay in Tehran, wehre they were apparently well-treated and fed? Be honest now, which of the two would YOU chose? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/339 "2007-04-04T17:06:03Z")
Interesting read – quite applicable to this thread: [Bush, Iran & Selective Outrage](http://consortiumnews.com/2007/040107.html) ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2007, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/340 "2007-04-04T17:22:51Z")
[QUOTE=Elsie] Also didn’t know anyone was “forced” to do anything - any links appreciated ? [/QUOTE] … Let’s get this straight: You think that the hypothesis that the sailors appearing live on Iranian news willingly to perform “confessions” and “apologies”, with the female sailor wearing a headscarf, is as likely as the hypothesis that they did so under duress? Also, you didn’t answer **Frylock** ’s earlier question, **Elsie**. What do you suppose Blair could have done in order to avoid looking like a “fiddle”? Resigned his position as chairman of “UK.plc”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166.md?page=18)