# Iranian military seizes 15 British sailors in Iraqi waters **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 23, 2007, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166 "2007-03-23T13:58:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/21 "2007-03-23T17:57:37Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] A shame. The British were once a proud race. [/QUOTE] The British and the United States used to be good at foreign policy, too. Times have changed. Everything about this stinks. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/22 "2007-03-23T18:18:21Z")
> [@](#): > > Really? Tragic, shocking and horrible though that would be, would it really be worth the untold suffering, death and misery of thousands of Iranian civilians, the deaths of hundreds more British servicemen, the inevitable further recruitment to terrorist groups all round the world, and the inevitable increase in “spectaculars” in the west. Would it really be worth that? A quick question, If everytime we went to war we thought about the prospect of raising international terrorism, then wouldn’t the terrorists of won in their prospect of threatening more violence? > [@](#): > > I say - if this isn’t a damn lie, and alas there is always that possibility - that a vicious SAS raid is the correct response. Not war. It happened in 2004 as well I think, where the Iranians told the service men in a similar situation, to start digging their graves, however, all were released eventually. It’s a nothing situation. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/23 "2007-03-23T18:28:33Z")
[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan] Jesus, me too. I’m finding it hard not to see the kidnappings themselves as an act of war. I hope it’s just some local commander overstepping his bounds, not a policy of the Administration in Tehran. [/QUOTE] Technically, I think it is an act of war. Also think the notion of televised executions is far fetched…but if it happens, the Brits will retaliate. They would have no other viable choice. The U.S. would back them–Shrub has a hard on for Iran anyway. Iran will have to return the servicemen unharmed, and PDQ. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/24 "2007-03-23T18:29:52Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] A quick question, If everytime we went to war we thought about the prospect of raising international terrorism, then wouldn’t the terrorists of won in their prospect of threatening more violence? [/QUOTE] Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda **want** a general war between the Islamic world and the Western world (because they believe Islam, supported by God, will win and a new united Caliphate will result); every step taken in that direction is a victory for them. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/25 "2007-03-23T18:33:38Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] Not all spying is done out of uniform. The Chinese frequently claim that US naval personnel are conducting electronic spying operations off coastal waters. Why couldn’t Iran claimed that the British personnel were doing the same, but they destroyed their equipment or something? ETA: I’m not saying this was actually their mission (it seems exceedingly unlikely), but it seems like something the Iranians could claim as pre-text. [/QUOTE] Yes, but executing uniformed enemy soldiers for spying would be a war crime. However, I’d be suprised if it came to that, the Iranians hopefully aren’t stupid enough to pull such a provacative stunt unless they really do hope for open war with Britain and the US. ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/26 "2007-03-23T18:52:20Z")
according to an analyst, the Brits have made a fool out of them selves by claiming that they where in iraqi waters ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/27 "2007-03-23T18:54:09Z")
[QUOTE=Alessan] A shame. The British were once a proud race. [/QUOTE] race ? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/28 "2007-03-23T18:55:18Z")
I wonder if Iran thinks it can get away with this (and I agree that it’s largely grandstanding for the hometown crowd) because the credibility of the UK and US is currently in tatters. The sailors may very well have been in international waters, but no matter how loudly the UK trumpets that fact (presuming it’s a fact), the average world observer will still respond with a :dubious: because Blair and Bush have been shown to be completely full of shit on such a huge number of other questions. It’s the old “crying wolf” thing: we’ve demonstrated ourselves to be untrustworthy, so when something like this happens, a he-said-they-said thing, we find we have no reputation to fall back on. Sad, really. Such a waste. ETA: Forgot to finish my thought. Basically, there’s no downside for Iran here. Nobody wants to trust them, but nobody is willing to go to bat for the UK or the US any more either. So everybody stays on the sidelines; Iran gets to embarrass the superpower and one of its lap dogs for a few days, and demonstrate their essential helplessness; and then the sailors go free while Iran’s mullahs get parades and medals and shit. Or that’s the way it seems to me, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/29 "2007-03-23T18:57:46Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] according to an analyst, the Brits have made a fool out of them selves by claiming that they where in iraqi waters [/QUOTE] All pretty academic until some corroborating evidence is produced, isn’t it? I’d have thought that HMS Cornwall and the American 5th Fleet would have had _some_ RADAR logs showing the positions of all boats in the area. > [@](#): > > race ? Yes, race. A set of people sharing an identifying characteristic, i.e. originating from the British Isles. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/30 "2007-03-23T19:12:26Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda **want** a general war between the Islamic world and the Western world (because they believe Islam, supported by God, will win and a new united Caliphate will result); every step taken in that direction is a victory for them. [/QUOTE] But inaction is also a victory for them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/31 "2007-03-23T19:16:45Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] But inaction is also a victory for them. [/QUOTE] How? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/32 "2007-03-23T19:20:25Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] How? [/QUOTE] Well, Al Queda bases before 2001 in Afghanistan for a start. Inaction allows Al Queda to act with impunity, and it’s also what caused 9/11. We didn’t take it seriously, now that event has become the nexus for everything we’re fighting now. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/33 "2007-03-23T19:26:18Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Yes, but executing uniformed enemy soldiers for spying would be a war crime. However, I’d be suprised if it came to that, the Iranians hopefully aren’t stupid enough to pull such a provacative stunt unless they really do hope for open war with Britain and the US. [/QUOTE] Oh, I totally agree. I was responding to the OP, not the execution scenario. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/34 "2007-03-23T19:39:11Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Yes, but executing uniformed enemy soldiers for spying would be a war crime. [/QUOTE] They aren’t ennemy soldiers since AFAIK Iran and the UK aren’t at war. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/35 "2007-03-23T19:44:20Z")
[QUOTE=Ryan\_Liam] Well, Al Queda bases before 2001 in Afghanistan for a start. Inaction allows Al Queda to act with impunity, and it’s also what caused 9/11. We didn’t take it seriously, now that event has become the nexus for everything we’re fighting now. [/QUOTE] If you were POTUS which Middle Eastern country _wouldn’t_ we have invaded/bombed to rubble? How would you respond to a thousand fold increase in terrorism and a spike in oil prices (especially after you bomb/invade Saudia Arabia and Iran on top of Iraq)? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/36 "2007-03-23T19:48:05Z")
[QUOTE=chappachula] Even if the Iranians are stupid enough to, say, execute the captives on live television by sawing their heads off, the British public wouldnt be willing to go to war. [/QUOTE] Quite right. We don’t have the military manpower. We’d simply turn Iran into a radioactive parking lot. And I’ve no doubt that Blair would do it: he’s got nothing to lose. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/37 "2007-03-23T19:49:12Z")
[QUOTE=Dominic Mulligan] All pretty academic until some corroborating evidence is produced, isn’t it? I’d have thought that HMS Cornwall and the American 5th Fleet would have had _some_ RADAR logs showing the positions of all boats in the area. . [/QUOTE] Sure. and in all likehood they know where these soldiers actually were. I don’t say they’re mistaken, but, like many others, I state I’ve no reason to believe they’re telling the truth. I’m not sure why you would need corrobating evidences to believe they weren’t in Iraqi waters but wouldn’t need them to believe they were there; If Iran states they were caught in Iraian waters, then it will just be a “he said, she said” situation. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/38 "2007-03-23T19:53:27Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Quite right. We don’t have the military manpower. We’d simply turn Iran into a radioactive parking lot. [/QUOTE] You wouldn’t. Stop having wet dreams about some millions of Iranians being vaporized in reprisal for the beheading on live TV of a dozen british soldiers because neither will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/39 "2007-03-23T19:55:57Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] Quite right. We don’t have the military manpower. We’d simply turn Iran into a radioactive parking lot. And I’ve no doubt that Blair would do it: he’s got nothing to lose. [/QUOTE] Meh, that’s crazy talk. The UK isn’t going to nuke a million Iranians over the deaths of 15 sailors. But didn’t this happen once before a year ago? Some Brits wandered into Iranian waters, were detained for a few days then released. I imagine the samething will happen this time around. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2007, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166/40 "2007-03-23T19:57:17Z")
“Prime Minister? Uh, Baroness Thatcher is on Line 1. She wants you to send her to Tehran… on the tip of a Trident MIRV.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-military-seizes-15-british-sailors-in-iraqi-waters/397166.md?page=3)