I agree, but would you do it without at least the threat of torture or coercion?
Nothing compared to our massacre and devastation of Iraq.
Actually in this case, yes.
Pictures of her, and later them, reassured the family/ies that they were safe and well.
Also, I would not be at all surprized if she were a fervent anti smoker.
In my case I would probably have suggested a Scotch would loosen my tongue 
Boy, I would have fun telling them about the extra curricular activities aboard the Hercules. I would make the place sound like Las Vegas.
Ah, so you are saying by their actions, which are probably outside the norm for them, they are in effect resisting their captors? If so, okay, I can see it.
There are strong rumors that US (and maybe british, for all I know) special forces have been send in Iran to gather informations about their nuclear installations, defenses, etc…
Besides that, I’m going to remind you that the british in question were themselves in someone’s else territory, even if they weren’t in Iranian waters. They weren’t captured off the coast of Cornwall, were they?
Iran accuses the coalition of having abducted high-ranking personnel too…
And what makes you so sure that they weren’t, indeed, in Iranian waters and/or that they weren’t, indeed, spying?
I’m willing to believe this small boy. Or rather, I’ve still no reason to believe the UK/USA, as I’ve already stated. Maybe I’m as gullible at the childish Iranian masses, but then again, maybe you’re the gullible one. At least, it seems to me that your analysis doesn’t go much beyond “Everything Iran says must be a lie, and everything the UK says must be true”. In case you wouldt know, the UK authorities have occasionnally been caught lying during the recent years re. the situation in the middle east (Regarding the USA, I’m told they’ve sometimes be caught telling the truth, but intend to correct this kind if mistake in the future).
Are you under the belief that the UK would never, ever, engage in an activity as vile as spying? And if you do believe that the UK might spy on Iran, what makes you so sure the sailors in question weren’t involved in such a mission? Would you believe for an instant that, if it were the case, the UK would have admited to it? Don’t you think they would rather have made up a plausible story?
Paint me as a skeptical. I’m still not fully convinced that the french “recreationnal diver” freed by Iran three week ago or so, or the German guy still detained weren’t indeed spies, and this despite them not being military personel and their respective countries not having as much interests at stakes as the UK. So, it would take a lot more than just Blair saying so for me to accept blindly the british version of the story.
By the way, earlier in the thread, someone asked why these sailors were so long away from their mother ship. Though indeed military personel intercepting civilian ships are sent on rubber boats, each time I’ve seen such a thing, the military vessel was at a relatively close distance, within firing range of light weapons, I would guesstimate. It’s not very quck, nor very safe to send a rubber boat miles away and back. So, has any explanation been released now regarding this intriguing issue?
Finally, it wouldn’t hurt, generally speaking, to stop viewing Iranian leaders as 4 y.o. children, as unsophisticated naives, as idiots, as easily intimidated cowards and so on, as many posters seem to do. You’re not going to have any realistic picture of the situation this way. Wake up! It’s not the colonial era anymore.
It is not so much resisting their captors, it is more complicated.
The first step in staying alive is to make your captors recognize you as human.
In some ways, I suspect that it is developing an inverted ‘Stockholm Syndrome’
- like captors get to like captives
Deleted . Reason : Noticed my points about cooperating with captors have already be made by ** FRDE **
Well let’s take this from the bottom up.
The Iranian leaders are not exactly showing more IQ than a 4 year old.
Boats and Radar are a problem - which is, oddly, why some people use rubber boats
I’ve not heard about the French diver, nor the German one, but I would strongly suspect that they were Legionaires.
Spying on a Dhow is laughable.
I don’t know what happened to those generals, but I consider abduction unlikely.
If the UK were not in UK waters then an escort would be normal, off Cornwall a foreign ship would be invited in for a good piss up.
While I loathe the fact that we are in Iraq, I don’t think it is smart of the Iranians to provoke us.
Realistically they could run patrol boats alongside ours.
What make you think so?
Can you elaborate? I honestly don’t understand what you mean.
Since you didn’t hear of them, I’m not sure on what basis you’re making this assumption. On one hand it’s odd to pick Iranian waters (or non-Iranian waters near Iran, depending on which side you listen to) as a diving spot, on the other hand, people have be known to do more stupid stuff (“let’s befriend the grizzlies”, for instance).
Spying on a dhow, maybe, but what about transporting someone or something on a dhow, for instance?
Why?
In the post I was responding too, you were ranting about people entering someone else’s territory. I just wanted to remind you that the british in Irak also are in someone else’s territory, making your rant a little ironical.
Until now, this move doesn’t seem to have had harmful consequences for Iran. Besides, for it to be a provocation, you have to assume that they indeed captured the sailors outside Iranian waters. And I’m precisely arguing that you can’t make this assumption merely on the basis of the official british stance.
Huh? Where? Do you mean they should be allowed to send patrol boats along yours in Iraki waters, or that british ships should be allowed to send patrol boats along Iranian ones in Iranian waters? I wouldn’t call either “realistic” in the current situation.
Besides, I’m not convinced that Iranian authorities are interested in stopping smuggling between Iran and Irak. Iran’s economy doesn’t fare so well currently, and I understand that smuggling stuff in Irak is generating a lot of money.
In order to be clearer : What I found ironical was the rant about Iranians in Iraki waters being “people entering someone else’s territory” when British in Iraki waters are equally in someone else’s territory.
Actually one normally spells ‘Irak’ as Iraq
Beats me why.
Anyway, I need to eat, and I’m not sober enough to explain why I think the current Iranian regime is behaving like kindergarten kids - so I shall not.
[sub] Info on the German and French divers would be interesting[/sub]
Because in French, “Iraq” is spelled “Irak”, so I automatically write it this way almost every time. I’m aware of the mistake, I just always forget about it. Actually, it’s beginning to confuse me since the other day I wasn’t sure any more of the french spelling (is it a “q” in french and a “k” in english, or the other way around?) and I had to check a dictionnary.
The British Ministry of Defence just released information purporting to prove the Cornwall was in Iraqi waters when it was seized.
And then, there’s the other side of the question:
Brinkmanship Unwise in Uncharted Waters
by Ray McGovern
MEMORANDUM
FROM:Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)
Furthermore:
On the referenced Graig Murray and his blog. Particularly this entry about:
Much more at both sources.
Meanwhile, I’m definitely with clairobscur and Graig Murray in this. No reason to taken proven liars such as Bush and Blair at their word over the “small boy’s” own. Let’s wait and see how this all plays out first.
All bolding/underlining mine.
@ClairObscur I had forgotten that you are French, well I’ve learnt something.
The reason for rubber boats is that they don’t show up so well on Radar, most ships are equipped with Radar, so it seems sensible to use them for intercepting suspicious vessels.
I really don’t think those guys were spying, for a start there is not much to spy on there, and if they were up to no good the Iranians would have been exhibiting special equipment.
I take your point about the irony of them being in Iraq’s territory, quite amusing.
I also doubt that the British are sending people in to sniff round the nuclear skunk works. They don’t need to, the Israelis will have had the place locked down for years, and while they might exaggerate - they’ll be pretty free with what they know.
@BG Given that Bliar and Bush are a known pair of liars, it is tempting to believe the opposite of anything they say. Unfortunately that could lead to paradoxes like ‘this statement is untrue’. I prefer to ignore them and try to figure things out for myself.
I don’t think that this was ‘entrapment’ - the Iranians did not need to take the bait. My feeling is that this was a local initiative on the part of Iran, and that all parties are exploiting it.
It seems that he is not coming back, but even so this seems to be needed for the 1000th time:
Iraq was not responsible for any of those items, and that goes for Iran too.
Did I say they were?
Muslims were responsible
And you seem to be trying to say that since Al Qaeda are Muslim Iran will therefore behave exactly like Al Qaeda.
With that flawless logic, we should therefore invade Indonesia as soon as possible…
Are you off your trolley? both you and Gigobuster.
I do not seem to be saying anything of the sort