Or that the boat wasn’t were they said it was and they didn’t want to make an offensive run into Iranian territory.
Absolutely. That was one of the points I was initially trying to make, but I got side-tracked. :o I’m reserving judgement on the evidence offered by the British government until I hear an independent expert’s take, because, as noted above, it looks like something easy to fake.
Okay, but, fwiw, I really have no interest in the he said/she said. Just getting sucked in here.
Honestly don’t care whether the boats were 1 mile this way or that; (a) the people detained will be returned safely (b) I trust the politicians on both sides equally - well I actually trsut Blair not at all, and (c) the realpolitik is the substance of this issue and is far more interesting than MOD distractive window dressing.
In short, Blair can shove his GPS, I’d rather muse on why the Iranians have shifted a pawn.
Okay, the Anglo-Saxon tradition like the Mongol, Roman, Russian, German, French, Persian, Norse, Chinese, Egyptian, Mayan, Aztec, Souix, Japanese, etc tradition. How about we just say ‘Human tradition’, huh?
Human, maybe, but you’ve got to admit, we Brits were a lot better at it than any of those other wimps.
Certainly. Here’s what you said:
“the Iranian and Palestinian masses are as thick as pig sh/t”
And here’s a dictionary definition of racist:
“the belief that people of different races have different qualities and abilities, and that some races are inherently superior or inferior”
And just to pre-empt the inevitable sophistry over what is race, here’s a dictionary definition of race for you too:
“2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.”
And I really do feel quite happy in saying that your statement “the Iranian and Palestinian masses are as thick as pig sh/t” is a clear claim that a a group of people of a particular nationality (2 nations actually) are inherently inferior.
If there’s anything else I can do to help you understand these tricky concepts, please feel free to ask.
Well, it would have been nice if you’d at least tried to answer my questions, but never mind. How about you try to explain how possesing the worlds most effective deterrent against invasion would be more dangerous for Iran than might otherwise be the case. Bonus points if you manage to square your explanation with the current state of play for Iraq (no nukes, invaded) and North Korea (tells the world about their nuclear program, 100% free from the presence of “liberating” forces)
In all, I don’t think you should be commenting on either the ignorance of others, or their lack of understanding of consequences.
Don’t know enough about Mongol folk music, I’ll have to see if Andy Kershaw has a podcast.
You’re the one making an extraordinary claim here. It stands to logic that if you are leveling an accusation against someone, you have to prove that accusation.
Is it your genuine assertion that anyone in U.S. custody is going to be tortured? And the last I checked there is certainly no evidence the Iranian generals in question have been kidnapped; its not exactly an unheard of thing that high-level military leaders defect this happened several times in the Cold War.
Before even getting to the matter of these specific Iranians, maybe you could offer some proof that the Iranians were kidnapped in the first place.
After you’ve done that, offer some proof that they are being tortured. What you’re asking me to prove is that something isn’t happening, any child educated in logic knows that one cannot prove a negative, it’s impossible. So the onus is on you to prove the assertion, not on me to prove that your assertion is off-base. It’s precisely because of how difficult (or rather impossible) it is to prove a negative that persons accused of crimes in every civilized country in the world do not have to “prove their innocence” but rather the government has to offer up at least some evidence of guilt (this is true even outside of common law countries despite popular misconceptions on this point.)
That’s one thing that leaves me wondering, and has left me wondering since the beginning. The one reason I don’t reject completely the idea that they were in Iranian waters is the simple fact that they were taken so easily.
Whether or not Iran will/will not give these sailors back unharmed is really not the issue. I have no naval experience but I cannot imagine a country’s navy would want a man commissioned as captain of a ship who would simply smile and nod as another country’s Navy took his sailors prisoner. Note the word prisoner, it isn’t an arrest if they were truly not within Iranian waters, it was rather the taking of prisoners which is most definitely an act of war and one that the militaries of any country are supposed to respond to forcefully and without compromise at the moment it happens, without worrying about the higher chain of command (aka, if you’re stationed at a guard post and the enemy attacks, you don’t wait for an order to defend yourself, that’s common sense and the way things are done the world over. Likewise, a ship of war does not wait for the order to defend itself if it is being attacked.)
But again uninformed on standards of naval procedure, I guess it is possible that the Cornwall was in fact many miles away, although I’m not sure I’m comfortable with such a procedure being common place. Sailors aren’t infantrymen, and shouldn’t be left to boarding actions by themselves without support. In such a case one of the key things that would keep a small contingent of lightly armed sailors safe from harm on the ship they are boarding would be the assurance that the larger and more powerful frigate would send the merchant vessel to the bottom of the strait if its crew attacked the boarding party.
From here:
What he said. More than likely a better/more polite response than you would have gotten from me anyway.
Seriously, dude, you might want to inform yourself a bit better before you go around (literally) swinging feces at whole nations.
Thanks, Gary. Though I’m afraid as rational and well-versed as your responses were, they won’t make a dent into FRDE’s slanted thinking on this whole issue.
Well, if the MOD produced map is accurate the Cornwall was four or so nautical miles away.
There were some Royal Marines with the dinghies. Presumable they didn’t fancy their chances against six gunboats. I can’t believe Cornwall didn’t see the Iranians coming though.
I’m wondering why anyone thinks Britain has to prove anything at all. Iran’s got the burden of proof here, not Britain.
It’s somewhat interesting the similarities this situation has with one involving Zachary Taylor in 1846.
Well, duh. Iran only has Photoshop 3.0 and it doesn’t do layers.
Considering that the Mexican-American War was completely unjustified on the American side, what is your point?
Iran has the soldiers, so they can just sit there doing nothing for a while, and charge them in a few years.
When it comes to the ME I’m afraid your country’s reputation is not too hot.
The Iranian admin are a shower of cunts. That only makes your fuckers better in direct comparison in what they are allowed to get away with. Britain is involved in a war of aggression. The UK government has lied to its people and lied to parliament about that area of the world.
Most likely IMO this all started with an over eager Iranian on the ground and not an order from on high. Now, the big players are playing the cards they have been dealt. Alternatively the Iranians could be making a play against the weaker of the allies when they are trying with all their might to remove themselves from Iraq while still trying to say they aren’t pulling out, they are “withdrawing as they are no longer needed” :smack:
One way or the other. I wouldn’t trust the UK as far as I could spit a rat when it comes to the ME. I don’t trust the Iranians either. Hopefully some journalist will be able to find the truth and report it. It’s a small hope but it may happen. If it does though I bet it will be a paper guy rather than a tv one 
Saw on the news, they’ve decided to release the one woman among the captives. FWIW.
If you saw the video of the woman giving a “confession” you could not fail to notice that she was totally stressed out and under extreme pressure.
I saw it, and she was. Of course, once they release her, she can quite credibly repudiate that statement, as much so as that boy who was sitting on Hussein’s lap back in 1990.