# Iranian students protest Ahmadinejad: "Death to the dictator!" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 12, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887 "2006-12-12T23:08:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/1 "2006-12-12T23:08:04Z")
[They were a minority of the whole crowd](http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,1969922,00.html) – but, all the same, this is unprecedented. Is this a sign his government headed for trouble? In other news, at a Holocaust-denial conference, Ahmadenijad predicted Israel [“will soon be wiped out”](http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/800098.html) – but then, it’s not the first time he’s said that. (The neocons, meanwhile, seem to have found their [Iranian Chalabi.](http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2006/11/fakhravar.html) :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/2 "2006-12-12T23:15:05Z")
Smelling a rat, \*agent provacatuer \* like. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/3 "2006-12-12T23:18:13Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Smelling a rat, \*agent provacatuer \* like. [/QUOTE] An [_agent provocateur_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur) is (usually) an undercover agent who infiltrates a political group and goads them to commit some crime for which they can be arrested. So, are you blaming the Iranian secret police or whatever they call it? There’s nothing in the story to indicate the protestors **have** been arrested. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/4 "2006-12-12T23:26:43Z")
> [@BG](#): > > all the same, this is unprecedented “Unprecedented” how? Iranian students have certainly protested repressive government before this. It’s true that it’s the first student protest directly against Ahmadinejad himself since he took office. > [@](#): > > Mr Ahmadinejad - who has turned his appearances before mass audiences into a potent political tool - has insisted that the protesters should not be punished, Reuters reported, citing a presidential spokesman. Can-_ny_. But somehow I wouldn’t be surprised if something happens to them later, after the present fuss dies down. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/5 "2006-12-13T00:02:33Z")
[QUOTE=Kimstu] “Unprecedented” how? Iranian students have certainly protested repressive government before this. [/QUOTE] But how many times since the 1979 revolution? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/6 "2006-12-13T00:08:23Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] But how many times since the 1979 revolution? [/QUOTE] Numerous occasions… Both during this administration and further ones. Iranian society has plenty of problems but by middle eastern standards (none too high ones mind you) its pretty open and democratic. Its certainly not a dictatorship… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/7 "2006-12-13T00:41:30Z")
> [@BG](#): > > But how many times since the 1979 revolution? Several. What about the [1999 Iranian student riots](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_student_protests,_July_1999), for instance? And the [massive student protests of 2003](http://www.newsandletters.org/Issues/2003/July/OLATIran_July03.htm)? ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/8 "2006-12-13T01:08:42Z")
Yesterday I posted a thread on MPSIMS that went like a [lead balloon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=399690) My comments still stand though > [@](#): > > It´s a tiny little voice among the deafening rah-rah of demagogic, beligerant rethoric coming from the cynical crackpots in charge; is this the voice of the Iranian youth at large? It must take a considerable amount of courage to come out like that, I hope there´s a much larger silent mass feeling the same. With time they´ll have the chance to stir their country away from the path the encroached fundamentalists are heading for. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/9 "2006-12-13T01:33:42Z")
I can’t judge how accurate it is, but in our media there is a very common view that the long-term outlook of the regime is very bleak because of the significant and growing disconnect from the younger generation. Ahmadinejad’s recent trolling is seen as a desperate attempt to reunite the country against some common external enemy. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/10 "2006-12-13T02:17:29Z")
[QUOTE=kellner] Ahmadinejad’s recent trolling is seen as a desperate attempt to reunite the country against some common external enemy. [/QUOTE] [Here](http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/12/12/iran.holocaust.conference.reut/index.html) is his latest exploits: > [@](#): > > TEHRAN, Iran (Reuters) – Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Tuesday told delegates at an international conference questioning the Holocaust that Israel’s days were numbered. > > Ahmadinejad, who has sparked international outcry by referring to the killing of six million Jews in World War II as a “myth” and calling for Israel to be “wiped off the map,” launched another verbal attack on the Jewish state. > > “Thanks to people’s wishes and God’s will, the trend for the existence of the Zionist regime is downwards and this is what God has promised and what all nations want,” he said. (Watch an ex-KKK leader say why he’s at the conference Video) > > “Just as the Soviet Union was wiped out and today does not exist, so will the Zionist regime soon be wiped out,” he added. > > His words received warm applause from delegates at the Holocaust conference, who included ultra-Orthodox anti-Israel Jews and European and American writers who argue the Holocaust was either fabricated or exaggerated. Maybe some of the students are getting the same hinky feeling I am every time I hear this kind of crap spoken by a supposed head of state. Sure seems alarming to ME that a state that is trying to aquire nukes so stubornly is also ratchetting up the rhetoric against Israel (and the US)…but I’m sure I’m jumping at shadows. :dubious: -XT ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/11 "2006-12-13T02:28:37Z")
It is one of the eternal ironies of the world to me that, having known a godawful number of Iranians in my day (my mom’s second husband is from Ahvaz), the nation seemingly leading the ‘Great Satan’ charge is, in reality, one of the better educated and liberal (no kidding compared to the others) middle eastern states with a relatively strong tradition of elections, freedom, and open thought and discussions. In fact, disregarding Israel for the moment, it might not be too much to say that Iran is the most ‘western’ of the middle eastern nation-states. But you’d think that would eventually open up the door for some sort of deal to be struck. Don’t know that it **will** but you’d think it would. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/12 "2006-12-13T02:55:15Z")
[QUOTE=Jonathan Chance] In fact, disregarding Israel for the moment, it might not be too much to say that Iran is the most ‘western’ of the middle eastern nation-states. [/QUOTE] Turkey. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/13 "2006-12-13T03:05:22Z")
Ahmadenijad is President of Iran today due solely to the fact that the Bush administration could not pull its head out of its ass and recognize the reality that Iran was ready for change. Our ignorant bluster - the “Axis of Evil” stuff - directly led to an understandably defensive attitude from the Iranian voters. We had our chance to strike a deal, and we blew it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/14 "2006-12-13T03:30:01Z")
“Ahmadinejad, who has sparked international outcry by referring to the killing of six million Jews in World War II as a “myth” and calling for Israel to be “wiped off the map,” launched another verbal attack on the Jewish state.” I never understood the contradiction stated here (and repeated ad nauseum throughout the decades since the Holocaust): why wouldn’t a dedicated anti-Semite just acknowledge that “Yes Hitler killed them all and I’m glad he did! Hahahaha!”? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/15 "2006-12-13T05:32:24Z")
> [@](#): > > I never understood the contradiction stated here (and repeated ad nauseum throughout the > decades since the Holocaust): why wouldn’t a dedicated anti-Semite just acknowledge that > “Yes Hitler killed them all and I’m glad he did! Hahahaha!”? I imagine that some do. But the Holocaust still generates sympathy in non-jews for the jews. Maybe by denying it, or minimising it, some of that sympathy (and support) will fade in regards to the jews, and Isreal. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/16 "2006-12-13T12:43:21Z")
AFAICT, since Israel was created in the wake of the Holocaust, if it didn’t really happen, then neither did the creation of Israel. No, I don’t undertand it either. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/17 "2006-12-13T14:29:43Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] [Here](http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/12/12/iran.holocaust.conference.reut/index.html) is his latest exploits: Maybe some of the students are getting the same hinky feeling I am every time I hear this kind of crap spoken by a supposed head of state. Sure seems alarming to ME that a state that is trying to aquire nukes so stubornly is also ratchetting up the rhetoric against Israel (and the US)…but I’m sure I’m jumping at shadows. :dubious: -XT [/QUOTE] Did the Soviet Union get nuked? No. So you cannot draw your conclusion from his analogy. He’s calling for the State of Israel to go, not for the extermination of the Jews. That could be through repatriation or subsumation within Palestine. And as yet there is no solid evidence Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapons as opposed to a nuclear power option. [White house brushes off CIA reprt](http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-11-20T142248Z_01_N20264504_RTRUKOC_0_US-IRAN-USA-REPORT.xml) > [@](#): > > The White House dismissed a classified CIA draft assessment that found no conclusive evidence of a secret Iranian nuclear weapons program, the New Yorker reported. > > The article by investigative journalist Seymour Hersh said the CIA’s analysis was based on technical intelligence collected by overhead satellites and on other evidence like measurements of the radioactivity of water samples. > > “The CIA found no conclusive evidence, as yet, of a secret Iranian nuclear weapons program running parallel to the civilian operations that Iran has declared to the International Atomic Energy Agency,” according to the article. > > “A current senior intelligence official confirmed the existence of the CIA analysis, and told me that the White House had been hostile to it,” it said. My guess is they probably are but having been lied to once I’m not believing one word the US or the UK say on the matter. Particularly if they once again ignore any contrary evidence. And if they are, who can blame them with the example of their neighbour before them. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/18 "2006-12-13T14:37:02Z")
[Excerpts from his speech](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16149717/) > [@](#): > > “The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom,” Ahmadinejad said during Tuesday’s meeting in his offices, according to the official IRNA news agency. > > He called for elections among “Jews, Christians and Muslims so the population of Palestine can select their government and destiny for themselves in a democratic manner.” He’s still a nasty, ignorant lunatic though. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/19 "2006-12-13T15:07:07Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Sure seems alarming to ME that a state that is trying to aquire nukes so stubornly . . . [/QUOTE] [The CIA doubts that.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061120/pl_nm/iran_usa_report_dc) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2006, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iranian-students-protest-ahmadinejad-death-to-the-dictator/383887/20 "2006-12-13T15:08:41Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Turkey. [/QUOTE] Don’t call **Jonathan** that! No flaming in GD! 😉