# Iraq: Brit troops to be deployed in US area **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 21, 2004, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379 "2004-10-21T10:34:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/1 "2004-10-21T10:34:26Z")
So it looks certain that ~650 troops from The Black Watch will be deployed to Baghdad to free up US troops for a major assault on Falluja. Blair is in trouble over this. Despite his insistence that this is purely a move based on military necessities he is being accused of pandering to the current US Admin and helping out George with good PR from Iraq. [Labour loyalists grow restless amid suspicion of political motives](http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12956,1332114,00.html) [Hoon to speak on Iraq troops move](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3761658.stm) So is this a political move or a military one? Has Bush and Co. mentioned this? Does anyone trust Blair anymore? Me, I think this is a foolish move on behalf of Blair. Nothing will come good out of it for him. More British soldiers will most likely be killed and he’ll be blamed. He’s screwed the pouch on Iraq and now anything he does will get him in shit. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/2 "2004-10-21T10:44:14Z")
I agree with you that it is foolish of Blair to send troops into US controlled areas. I doubt that 600 british troops will make much difference compared to over 120,000 US troops,except that Bush will be able to say “look the Brits are still with us”. As to whether it is political or militarily necessary, I guess we will have to wait for the full facts to be reported. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/3 "2004-10-21T10:59:57Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > So is this a political move or a military one? > Has Bush and Co. mentioned this? > Does anyone trust Blair anymore? > > . Political or miltary? Both. It’s obviously political in that it shows the US is not entirely alone in Iraq and that the allies are still on board. At a military level don’t under-estimate the value of the Black Watch - they’re a Warrior batallion (the vehicle not the adjective), which is pretty much ideal for this sort of thing - and there is also the fact that they have experience in Ireland in this type of warfare. There is also the fact that the Yanks have fucked up royally in Iraq - wrong tactics, wrong strategy, wrong people, and may feel that the Brits might do a better job. Trust Blair: I never did, but I would never vote labour anyway. He lied to his party to get the leadership. He lied to his best friend to get the leadership. He lied to Parliament over WMDs, Gilligan etc, he lied to the people over the intelligence. Even among people I know who will vote for him (with some reluctance) there is no trust left - they are voting for the Labour party - not Blair. The question to ask is " If military action was being planned gainst another state (Iran?) would you trust the Prime Minister to tell you the truth about this?" I don’t think there would be many yesses. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/4 "2004-10-21T15:13:00Z")
My 2nd link has now been updated to say that ~850 are going +support staff. Blair should be crossing his fingers about this. If Bush and Co. push this info as good news for American troops to the US public he(Blair) is going to be in a world of shit with the British public and his own party. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/5 "2004-10-21T15:19:06Z")
Do you think Bush knows and/or cares about the problems that this sort of thing cause his big buddy at home? If he does know - why does he do it? As to the decision - we were never going to say no were we? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/6 "2004-10-21T15:23:18Z")
Shifting some troops from the relatively quiet south to the Sunni triangle makes a lot of sense as a tactic. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/7 "2004-10-21T15:46:16Z")
Militarily it may do but that’s not really the issue anymore. Because of the way this war was sold by Blair and Bush very few people in the UK believe anything that comes out of Blair’s mouth anymore. The majority or people in the UK were and are against this war and don’t want to see their troops get into anymore danger than they already are. There is also the impression that American troops have truly fucked up the whole situation with Iraqis by being way to aggressive as to how they go about fighting this war. [example 1](http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BUN410A.html) [example 2](http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CNN410A.html) ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/8 "2004-10-21T16:42:25Z")
I wish I knew what Blair is geting out of this. I mean he _must_ know this is NOT going to make him popular. Not with the electorate anyway. Popular with Bush, yes, so long as he (Blair) reamins useful. And this will be a matter of “weeks rather than months”, says Geoff Hoon (Defence Secretary). [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk\_politics/3761658.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3761658.stm) Hmmm. Right. Of course we’ll take your word for it. I do wonder what Blair’s motivation is here. Apart from letting Bush look all bossy and in charge for the US elections. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/9 "2004-10-21T18:34:55Z")
He must have forgot about Poland. A massive shift in the deployment of the forces from the Seychelles, Lithuania, and Poland might cow the insurgency by sheer force of numbers. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/10 "2004-10-22T09:28:27Z")
Well the BBC are reporting that [this isn’t exactly big news in the US](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3758178.stm) so all the claims of political decisions designed to help Bush may be at the very least exaggerated. Still won’t help Blair at home though because of the levels of cynicism that has been created IMO. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/11 "2004-10-22T09:40:07Z")
I can only see this as a cynical political ploy. If Bush isn’t using this at the moment, I reckon he will be. I find it unbelievable that out of _130,000_ troops currently deployed, the US can’t find a mere 0.7% able to handle this situation. If it isn’t political, given the massive controversy it’s causing in the UK, the only other theory I come up with is that the US military leaders are admitting that their troops currently deployed aren’t up to the job. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/12 "2004-10-22T09:54:59Z")
It’s not so much a question of numbers - it’s to do with roles. The Black Watch are perfect for the role that is required. Don’t forget that huge swathes of the US army are functionally useless in Iraq as they are equipped and trained to fight in other theatres. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/13 "2004-10-22T09:57:30Z")
You’re telling me that, out of 130,000, they can’t scrape together a few hundred US troops trained for the same theatre as the Black Watch? I find it very difficult to believe. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/14 "2004-10-22T10:01:49Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > You’re telling me that, out of 130,000, they can’t scrape together a few hundred US troops trained for the same theatre as the Black Watch? I find it very difficult to believe. Of course they can - they’ve got thousands of 'em. They’re sending them all to Fallujah to knock the snot out of the bad guys. That’s why they need replacing. We’ve got replacements - they know this; that’s why they asked. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/15 "2004-10-22T10:14:59Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > You’re telling me that, out of 130,000, they can’t scrape together a few hundred US troops trained for the same theatre as the Black Watch? I find it very difficult to believe. Perhaps the question should be "You’re telling me that they can’t scrape together a few hundred US troops trained for the same theatre as the Black Watch **in time for an offensive to coincide with the upcoming election**? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/16 "2004-10-22T12:28:58Z")
Don’t worry they’ll by back by Christmas. [Can’t think where I heard that phrase before](http://www.wordiq.com/definition/World_War_I) ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/17 "2004-10-22T12:32:10Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > You’re telling me that, out of 130,000, they can’t scrape together a few hundred US troops trained for the same theatre as the Black Watch? I find it very difficult to believe. Rather unfortunately, British troops such as the Black Watch have experience from Northern Ireland that no US troops have had. ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/18 "2004-10-22T13:37:53Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Of course they can - they’ve got thousands of 'em. They’re sending them all to Fallujah to knock the snot out of the bad guys. That’s why they need replacing. We’ve got replacements - they know this; that’s why they asked. I’m with **owl** on this one. This is what the Black Watch are good at, this is what they are trained for. This is what they should be doing ferchristsakes - it makes military sense. Personally i’ll be much happier with them there than the Americans. I’m still trying to figure out at what point British Military Strategy got to be decided by trial of media… ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/19 "2004-10-22T13:58:23Z")
> [@garius](#): > > I’m with **owl** on this one. This is what the Black Watch are good at, this is what they are trained for. This is what they should be doing ferchristsakes - it makes military sense. > > Personally i’ll be much happier with them there than the Americans. > > I’m still trying to figure out at what point British Military Strategy got to be decided by trial of media… Because the Americans seem to have got by with their more forceful approach to peace-keeping when under fire up to now and they have plenty of troops capable of doing that. Suspecting this is therefore a politically motivated request makes it a quite proper subject for debate. By supporting this request Blair is saying the UK supports the massive use of firepower and the consequent civilian casualties going into Fallujah will cause. The voters, politicians, even his own parliamentary party, are not united in sharing this view. Hence it is political. ---
**Author:** ![johncole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5f9b8f/32.png) [@johncole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johncole)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379/20 "2004-10-22T14:33:06Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > You’re telling me that, out of 130,000, they can’t scrape together a few hundred US troops trained for the same theatre as the Black Watch? I find it very difficult to believe. FWIW I understand that the operation in Fallujah will be conducted by the US Marines, not by the Army or Army National Guard ([link](http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3659344) ). At present there are only 25,000 marines deployed to Iraq ([link](http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2004/040609-marine-deployment.htm) ), and they tend to be committed to high-value high-risk locations. In order to free-up as many marines as possible for the assault, they have to be replaced by forces with the same degree of training, professionalism, and experience - a role which is better suited to the Black Watch than the National Guard (no disrespect to the Guard, but part-time is part-time). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-brit-troops-to-be-deployed-in-us-area/270379.md?page=2)