# Iraq invasion: Am I a wishy-washy hypocrite? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 10, 2003, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314 "2003-03-10T15:27:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314/21 "2003-03-11T17:29:57Z")
OK, I get it. Saddam Hussein is a Very Bad Man™. I also understand that (supposedly) this war is not about oil. That being said, I invite the supporters of President Bush to answer some questions for me, as you guys seem to be pretty secure in your positions. First of all, let me tell you why it is that I am having a huge problem buying the fact that this is all about getting rid of some dangerous dictator guy. This would imply some sort of a noble attention to the greater good of the global village. But…. [ul] [li] If this is the case, [why are we ignoring the fact that there are currently 27 million people in a condition of slavery](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/2010401.stm)[/li][li] If this is the case, [why are we not doing anything about the famine in Africa?](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/africa/2002/famine_in_africa/)[/li][/ul] To name just a couple of easily identifiable issues (there are no doubt more). And, having dispensed with the idea that this is some kind of altruistic venture, we then are left with some sort of national interest at stake. And what does Iraq have a lot of that we like…? You can see where this is going. So really, I don’t know. I am willing to believe that there are things that I don’t know, but the thing is that the Administration needs to lay the cards on the table as to what this is all about, because the reasons that they are giving amount to a lot of BS as far as I can tell. ---
**Author:** ![Tee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@Tee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tee)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314/22 "2003-03-11T17:49:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Estilicon \* > **Well I have an ambivalent sentiment about this issue to. On one hand I am a pacifist, on the other I dislike bush and I hate Saddam. So my wet dream is that the american win this war but at a terrible cost in lives. Why? So next time you are not so happy with your trigger. It seems that the only way you are going to question your goverment is if thousand of your soldiers return home in bag.** I’m…never mind, I’ll have to think more about responding… Am I the only one growing more ambivalent about our UN membership by the day? I can’t be the only one. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314/23 "2003-03-11T18:26:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Binarydrone \* > First of all, let me tell you why it is that I am having a huge problem buying the fact that this is all about getting rid of some dangerous dictator guy. This would imply some sort of a noble attention to the greater good of the global village. But…. > [ul] > [li] If this is the case, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/2010401.stm]why are we ignoring the fact that there are currently 27 million people in a condition of slavery[/li][li] If this is the case, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in\_depth/africa/2002/famine\_in\_africa/] why are we not doing anything about the famine in Africa?[/li][/ul] > To name just a couple of easily identifiable issues (there are no doubt more). > > And, having dispensed with the idea that this is some kind of altruistic venture, we then are left with some sort of national interest at stake. And what does Iraq have a lot of that we like…? You can see where this is going. > \*\* I don’t know where you got your notions on how the world works. We do not send our military skipping accross the land doing good deeds for all the children. We commit our forces in order to defend the interests of country and our allies. So you think that Iraq is “just about oil”. Well, oil is, in fact, a vital strategic resource for the entire civilized world. Do you think there might be a rational to not have a significant portion of it in the hands of a madman? Of course oil is going to be part of the equation. If there was no oil there, the Middle East would have about as much political significance as Africa. But nevermind that. Your cites about slavery and famine in Africa are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. You mind as well post “why are we going to war in Iraq when the price of orange juice just went up”. Not being able to solve every issue on the planet does not mean we shouldn’t address any of them. Of course we can’t win though. If we do get involved, people berate us for being imperialists. If we don’t get involved, we’re too isolationist. So what do you want us to do? Maybe more sanctions because those have worked so well up until now. Lets have more Iraqis die from starvation and torture over the next 20 years while waiting for Sadam to bow to political pressure. Or maybe Sadam will just die of old age like Castro. I am not so naive to believe that there may be more to this conflict than we are being told. On the other hand, I find it equally hard to believe that W Bush (who is already quite wealthy AND the President of the USA to boot) is willing to risk thousands of lives and TRILLIONs of dollars just so we could buy cheap oil. Seems to me that there are easier ways to make money. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314/24 "2003-03-11T18:30:40Z")
The short, glib answer **Binarydrone** is that war with Iraq is easier than those other problems. I agree with you, we should be doing more about these and other issues. My wife is a professor in international development specialising in southern Africa so I often discuss these and many other African issues. I don’t think the US or any other country completely consistent and there isn’t an amount of self-interest here. But I can’t help think it is still the better course of action over the other crappy alternatives. If there was a way to remove Saddam and his family with less bloodshed I would be very happy. Of course the world community must be ready to rebuild Iraq after the war is over. I wish there was more development in Afghanistan. Actions do not always have to be completely noble to have positive consequences. Look at the French assisting the Americans in the war of independence. Hijack, Tommy Suharto, Marko Milosevic, Uday Hussein, do all dictators have psycopathic sons? ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314/25 "2003-03-11T18:38:18Z")
jeez, replace psycopathic with psychotic ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314/26 "2003-03-11T18:55:10Z")
**msmith537** , I know that this is a charged issue but if you look at what I am saying and how I am saying it I think that you will find that your reaction the questions that I am asking is a little off base. What I am saying is that a lot of how this war is being sold to me is specifically “skipping across the land doing good deeds…” I have stated that I don’t buy this and given cites to other issues every bit as important that we seem not to care about as a nation. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\*…We commit our forces in order to defend the interests of country and our allies. So you think that Iraq is “just about oil”. Well, oil is, in fact, a vital strategic resource for the entire civilized world. Do you think there might be a rational to not have a significant portion of it in the hands of a madman? Of course oil is going to be part of the equation. If there was no oil there, the Middle East would have about as much political significance as Africa… \*\* This is as close to an honest answer (or assessment) of the situation as I have heard, and I applaud you for it. ---
**Author:** ![BrookeJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@BrookeJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrookeJ)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314/27 "2003-03-11T18:55:19Z")
To those who consider bombing Iraq “defending our freedom:” How has Iraq/Hussein ever threatened our freedom? And don’t include anything about the price of gas in your answer. That’s NOT a significant threat to freedom. Doesn’t it concern anyone that a preemptive strike sets a dangerous precedent for the US? I mean, who do we think we are? We can just go bomb anyone who looks at us wrong now? At least in the last Gulf War, which I abhorred, we had the flimsy excuse of liberating Kuwait (that benevolent, peace-loving, democratic country, HA!). What about our own weapons of mass destruction? Oh, we can have them because we are “good” and they are “evil?” This whole thing makes me feel like I’m lost in a Kafka novel. ---
**Author:** ![Saen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Saen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saen)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2003, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314/28 "2003-03-11T18:58:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BrookeJ \* > \*\*To those who consider bombing Iraq “defending our freedom:” > > \*\* We would be defending our freedom to bomb Iraq of course. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314/29 "2003-03-14T19:42:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Binarydrone \* > \*\*Fist of all, BS. This really adds nothing to the debate. > > To the OP: I think, like you, I am quite ambivalent here. I have not really seen very many good reasons for this conflict, and tend to have a red mist descend over my vision whenever I have to look at the smug homunculus in the White House. > > On the other hand, the part of me that yearns for simplicity figures that there are some folks out there that need an ass kicking. All that I can suggest is that you probably want to look at the whole issue as logically as you can, and resist reductive thinking. \*\* _Binarydrone…monitor of the use of affirmatives…_ ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314/30 "2003-03-14T20:44:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by newcrasher \* > \*\*_Binarydrone…monitor of the use of affirmatives…_ \*\* Excellent. Congratulations on picking up a grammar nit and adding nothing to the debate. Now, was there something of substance that you wanted to discuss? For that matter, if my poor command of the written word was so difficult for you to grasp, is there a specific point on which you would like some clarification? Keep me posted and I will come running. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314/31 "2003-03-14T21:04:23Z")
You are not alone. I have no real problem with Bush, though I’m not a Republican, but I am anti war. Do I think the war might be the “best” thing, in the long run? Yeah. Can I bring myself to support it? No. I’m a fence sitter, and a wimpy one at that. I’m terrified by war. I’m afraid of Hussein. I want my mommy. Julie ---
**Author:** ![ElJeffe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/958977/32.png) [@ElJeffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElJeffe)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314/32 "2003-03-14T22:41:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Doesn’t it concern anyone that a preemptive strike sets a dangerous precedent for the US? Not really. What, are you worried that Cuba is going to try to invade us, using our actions in Iraq as precedent? Or are you worried that this invasion will lead down a slippery slope, culminating in an invasion of Canada for reasons of national security? To the former, I say: _chortle_ To the latter, I say: You must provide evidence that a slippery slope exists before you can use a slippery slope argument. Nation-building of the sort that will take place in Iraq is an expensive prospect, and not one that the US takes lightly. > [@](#): > > I mean, who do we think we are? We can just go bomb anyone who looks at us wrong now? We’re the US. We can bomb people who threaten the security of us or our allies. > [@](#): > > What about our own weapons of mass destruction? Oh, we can have them because we are “good” and they are “evil?” Yeah, pretty much. In the same way that you can own a gun and the ex-con with a history of violent crime can’t. Wow, those were easy questions. Got any more? I’ll take “Why comparing Bush to Saddam is stupid” for $800, Alex. Jeff [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-invasion-am-i-a-wishy-washy-hypocrite/160314.md?page=1)