# Iraq is launching those weapons of mass destruction it doesn't have at our soldiers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 20, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798 "2003-03-20T13:29:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![martin\_ibn\_martin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@martin\_ibn\_martin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martin_ibn_martin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/181 "2003-03-22T13:06:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squink \* > \*\*If you push us any harder, we shall have to boycott the maple syrup on our pancakes, or possibly start calling it “Freedom Juice.” Tremble before the awesome power of the American consumer ! \*\* My Maple Syrup, (Grade B, the tastiest), is from New Hampshire. In the Good 'Ol US of A! Thankyaverymuch. Helps to know folks who do their own sugarin’. Martin ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/182 "2003-03-22T13:16:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by particlewill \* > \*\ ***Boyo Jim** , the United Stares isn’t banned by the UN from having or using “WOMD”. Where is your logic leading? \*\* If a SCUD is a weapon of mass destruction, so is an MLRS, so is a Tomahawk missile. Which the US has been using by the boatload (literally). The US certainly will not acknowlegde USING WMDs in Iraq, though they have no problem admitting they posess them. ---
**Author:** ![Tir\_Tinuviel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tir\_Tinuviel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tir_Tinuviel)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/183 "2003-03-22T14:20:40Z")
the fact of the missiles used being SCUD’s has yet to be proven. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/184 "2003-03-22T14:36:27Z")
[carcasm]Someone really ought to go tell General Tommy Franks that those missiles already fired at his troops were WOMD, for right now he’s giving a press conference which has included questions on WOMD, and he has said WOMD may in the future be found. Obviously he either does not know that WOMD were fired at his troops already, or that he does not know what WOMD are.[/carcasm] Sheesh, Milo, you are so ignorant that you amaze me. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/185 "2003-03-22T14:41:42Z")
Son of a gun, General Tommy Franks is now explicitly discussing the missile attacks, and again is not calling them attacks with WOMD. Milo, you had better call him up immediately and correct him on his profound lack of knowedge of what is or is not a WOMD. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/186 "2003-03-22T14:45:50Z")
Now Franks repeating that he is certain that WOMD exist in Iraq, and that his troops will find them. DOESN’T HE KNOW THAT THEY WERE ALREADY USED AGAINST HIM? MILO, GET OFF YOUT ASS AND GO EXPLAIN THINGS TO HIM! In light of such tremendous ignorance, Milo should replace General Franks. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/187 "2003-03-22T15:22:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Desmostylus \* > \*\*I’ve now checked the thing that I obviously should have checked in the first place. Kuwait is pretty small, and there’s only a tiny part in the south of Kuwait that’s more than 150 km from the Iraqi border. So the missiles didn’t have to be SCUDs at all. > \*\* But, in fairness, Iraq (or any country) would be foolish to be firing missiles from right at the border, where they would be easily detected and where a small, fast assault force could easily take them. They most likely would be set back from the lines some distance, and thus it seems (without any cites given) at least likely that they would have had to travel some further distance. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/188 "2003-03-22T18:46:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr. Cynical \* > \*\*How many people have to die ALL AT ONCE for you to justify the weapon that killed them as a weapon of mass destruction? \*\* by that definition and viewpoint, the following things should be considered Weapons of Mass Destruction: 1. any and all bombs. 2. any machine gun 3. the Band using pyrotechnics and causeing the bar fire that killed almost 100 people. ---
**Author:** ![ZiggyB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b487fb/32.png) [@ZiggyB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZiggyB)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/189 "2003-03-22T22:38:26Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Model-Shipwright_I have no such demand. Those places have no current potential based on our intel for clear and present danger to the United Statesor her allies. They do not directly threaten our security. Currently, they have no potential. I wasn’t addressing you but the person who complained about the terrible abuses by Saddam Hussein. You say that Iraq is such a threat to the USA that we need to bomb the country and invade them. How are they a threat? If they’re that formidable why is it that the number of US casualties is so low? Iraq is a poor third-world country on the verge of collapse. To call them a threat is risible. You should also think for yourself instead of letting Bush do your thinking for you. ---
**Author:** ![ZiggyB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b487fb/32.png) [@ZiggyB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZiggyB)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/190 "2003-03-22T22:40:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Model-Shipwright \* > Oh, I’m sorry, he’s just a collector. My misunderstanding. I didn’t realize that there was a club out there for this. How can get in on this? Is there a WMD of the month club I can sign up for? So any country that was WMD is planning on using them eventually. Why should the UK, the US, or anyone else be allowed to have them? By your reasoning China would be justified in invading us because we pose a threat to them. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/191 "2003-03-22T23:09:39Z")
I’ve got good news and bad news, for all you fucktards using me as your piñata. The New York Times today is reporting that thusfar, Iraq has not launched Scuds. It has apparently launched Ababil-100 missiles. This is strange to me, in that as of yesterday, the Kuwaiti military was saying at least two of the missiles were confirmed as Scuds, and I’d never heard any retraction of that. Still, there it is. The Times states: > [@](#): > > So far, the Iraqis have not fired any of the few Scuds they are thought to have retained. Instead, they have been launching the Ababil-100, a solid-fueled missile that is easy to move and that the Iraqis have been firing primarily from areas surrounding Basra. So, there it is. Congratulations. Start the celebration. Oh. Wait. The Times then goes on to say: > [@](#): > > The range of Iraqi missiles is limited to 90 miles under stipulations set by the United Nations. But some of the Ababil-100s that were fired have exceeded that range, confirming an analysis by the C.I.A. that the Ababil-100, like the liquid-fueled Samoud missiles that Iraq agreed to destroy in recent weeks, was developed in violation Iraq’s United Nations obligations. One of the Ababil-100’s that was intercepted flew about 110 miles. Aw, that’s OK, gang. Don’t let the facts get in the way of your fun. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/192 "2003-03-22T23:21:58Z")
> [@](#): > > …for all you fucktards using me as your piñata. I do feel kind of bad about that, **Milo**. But you make it so easy, its kind of hard not to. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/193 "2003-03-22T23:33:30Z")
Speaking of fucktards… Milo, are you STILL claiming a SCUD is a WMD? I haven’t seen a retraction yet. Dumb-shits who can’t even acknowledge they are factually wrong about something when they clearly are, are the REAL fucktards. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/194 "2003-03-22T23:43:09Z")
**Milo** , you’ve gone from asserting that WMDs are being used on our poor troops, to claiming victory in the thread by citing a story that show that one of Iraq’s missles went an extra few feet than what the UN resolution allows. That would probably be significant if every single thing the US is doing to Iraq was not _also_ in violation of the UN charter and international law. It’s kind of disingenuous to say that Iraq has to follw every nit-picking, chickenshit reg in the book, but the US can do whatever the fuck it wants. Until the US is ready to abide by UN resolutions then we have no right to whine about Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/195 "2003-03-23T00:05:04Z")
I already noted this Milo, pages ago: it isn’t just the type of missle that’s outlawed, but also the range. However, this is a separate issue from WOMD in any absolute sense. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/196 "2003-03-23T00:23:27Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Sauron_ > \*\*How about this: An action is either legal or illegal based on the existing laws. “Interpretation” doesn’t enter into it. If you have to interpret, the law isn’t written plainly enough. And no matter how many times you say something is “illegal,” it doesn’t automatically make it so. > > I’ll ask again: Are you saying that if something is illegal, it’s also unjustifiable?\*\* Really? There’s no interpretation involved in legal issues? You might want to tell that to the Justices of the Supreme Court of the United States, and to various other judicial authorities throughout the nation and the world who interpret law every time they make a decision. And you’ve now directly contradicted your previous post, in which you said that “I have read them, and I believe they’re open to **different interpretations**.” Well, if they are, then why not give me yours, like i asked? Or would that involve the difficulty of actual analysis? Interestingly enough, even if your assertion were true, it would actually serve to undermine you position. Because if, as the US and UK argue, a “material breach of resolution 687 revives the authority to use force under resolution 678,” then you should be able to show me exactly where it says so in the relevant resolution. Because if, as you assert, there is no room for interpretation in cases like this, then surely we can only rely on the exact words that are written down. And if those resolutions don’t explicitly state that further violations by Iraq give individual nations the authority to resume bombing in the absence of UNSC approval, then all we can do is go back to the UN Charter itself, which allows attacks only in case of self-defense or when the Security Council gives authorization. And, in answer to the last question, i do believe there are times when something might be illegal but still justifiable. But i do not believe that this is one of them, and i’ve given my reasons dozens of times on these Boards over the past months. Anyhow, i’m not the one doing the invading, or supporting the invasion. Why should i have to prove to you why the invasion is unjustifiable? The burden of proof rests with those doing and supporting the action. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Milossarian_: > \*\*I think I used a period in a place where I need to use a comma. > > Or wait, maybe it was a comma where a semicolon was supposed to go. > > Have at it, liberals!\*\* Wow, you’re really getting desperate now, aren’t you? Having exhausted your meagre supply of intellect on an ill-advised and easily-refutable OP, you’ve descended to oblique accusations of pedantry. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Milossarian_: > **Aw, that’s OK, gang. Don’t let the facts get in the way of your fun.** **Elucidator** is right; you just make it too easy. Two things, in case you have yet to comprehend: a) Iraq _does_ have weapons that it had agreed to destroy; it _is_ in violation of UN resolutions. b) The weapons to which you have referred are _not_ WMDs. Is that really too hard to grasp? I challenge you to find one instance on this Board in which i have stated that Iraq is not in violation of UN resolutions, or that Iraq does not have WMDs. Iraq may well have WMDs. All i said was that the US has yet to furnish sufficient proof of this, and the missiles fired by Iraq so far in this conflict do not constitute proof. Furthermore, even if such weapons are eventually discovered, this will not constitute an _ex post facto_ justification for US actions that violate the UN Charter and ignore the Security Council. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/197 "2003-03-23T01:05:45Z")
Back here again nittering away, but still not retracting the OP title statement that Iraq has launched WMD? Milo, you are both ignorant and an ass. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/198 "2003-03-23T01:38:31Z")
Man, I’ve been away too long. I forgot how entertaining Milossarian can be when he’s refusing to admit that he’s wrong. Holy freakin’ Saddam on a camel, **Milo**! If you think a few little missiles justify spending nearly $100,000,000,000 (that’s _one hundred billion dollars!_) and risking thousands of lives to invade and conquer another nation, then you have bounced your reality check, my friend. There just ain’t enough in your account, bud. _You’re overdrawn!_ See if a surgeon can remove your cranium from your anal cavity. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/199 "2003-03-23T02:48:37Z")
> [@](#): > > for all you fucktards using me as your piñata. Last pinata party I went to, we were beating the shit out of a stuffed donkey. But I kept suggeting it was an **ass**. I could have been mistaken. But probably not. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2003, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798/200 "2003-03-23T02:58:47Z")
A hundred billion buckadingdongs? No shit? To take out an evil buttmunch like Saddam? Gee, we ought to be able to appropriate a couple grand to smoke my high school guidance counselor. The guy was really a dink. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-is-launching-those-weapons-of-mass-destruction-it-doesnt-have-at-our-soldiers/162798.md?page=11)