# Iraq: more soldiers got killed, what's the next move? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 5, 2004, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294 "2004-04-05T03:05:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![legion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@legion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/61 "2004-04-07T16:23:00Z")
Sorry. I posted in haste, won’t happen again. :o ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/62 "2004-04-07T16:28:08Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Well, in the game of trotting out old saws, GW and his cabal can always say, “If you want to make an omelet you have to break some eggs.” well, I damn sure see all the broken eggs. Don’t see any omelette. As to the gender equality of the corpses, that may be ideally true, but in fact, when you kill one male fighter, you likely engender one more enemy, his nearest kin, his son, that sort of thing. Kill a woman, engender two more enemies, kill a chlild, four. Do it while bombing a religious symbol…you better send for more ammo. Its the damnedest thing. I kinda thought something like this would happen, it was on my list of dreadful possible consequences. And yet, strangely, now that what I thought would happen _is_ happening…I can hardly believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/63 "2004-04-07T16:38:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > As to the gender equality of the corpses, that may be ideally true, but in fact, when you kill one male fighter, you likely engender one more enemy, his nearest kin, his son, that sort of thing. Kill a woman, engender two more enemies, kill a chlild, four. Do it while bombing a religious symbol…you better send for more ammo. Well, that is potential rebels, granted. However, kill a kid’s parents, and he’ll grow up with a loathing that can’t be trained or bought. We’re doing a lot of that right now. > [@](#): > > Its the damnedest thing. I kinda thought something like this would happen, it was on my list of dreadful possible consequences. And yet, strangely, now that what I thought would happen _is_ happening…I can hardly believe it. Kinda reminds me of hitting the Chinese Embassy. That was surreal. There must have been some crazy back channel work going on to prevent that from being even worse than it was. Then we hit the bloody Red Cross compount in Kabul twice… we aren’t very good at not bombing people O\_o Probably lots of stuff we don’t hear about at all, considering how hard we have to dig for what we DO hear about. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/64 "2004-04-07T16:44:01Z")
This is my own nightmare scenerio. For a long time I’ve worried about a more general uprising that forced the US to harsher measures. Not exactly a recipe for peace and harmony with the general population when you kill innocent civilians. Since everyone is throwing around cliche’s, I think the most appropriate to the current situation is: Damned if you do, Damned if you don’t. ☹ The next move? I’d say we are committed to dancing the steps now. We are there, unfortunately, and this thing is exploding in our face…also unfortunately. THIS blow up might not even be our fault specifically (leaving aside for a moment that its ALL our fault for being there in the first place), but that makes no difference…it IS blowing appart. At this point we have to put this thing down as hard as we can while still attempting to do everything in our power not to kill any more innocent civilians caught in the middle as we can…and do a lot of hoping and praying (for those of you who pray). How will we accomplish this trick? Beats the shit out of me…I haven’t any idea. Most likely we won’t and innocents will die, further angering segments of the population. Its all hanging by a thread now…a very small thread, and it could all go tits up with just the smallest push. While I don’t blame the military specifically for civilian casualties in a fire fight like is being described, at any time a fuck up, a mistake, a badly aimed rocket, etc could throw the whole thing into the fire. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/65 "2004-04-07T17:51:09Z")
Well, most of this is going right over my head, but for some reason I’m a little mad at the cynical fighters who barricade themselves inside a mosque and surround themselves by women and children to begin with. This alone shows they have no interest in ‘freedom’ for the people; it’s all about power again, and if they get it back they’ll probably have the same respect for civilians as the average Sudanese militiaman. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/66 "2004-04-07T17:59:35Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > I’m a little mad at the cynical fighters who barricade themselves inside a mosque and surround themselves by women and children to begin with. This alone shows they have no interest in ‘freedom’ for the people. How does that prove that they have no interest in freedom for the people? The civilians they surround themselves with are volunteers, not hostages - they know that the best way they can fight for their freedom is by hindering the US forces. Is it a screwed up way to fight? Yes. Does it show that the people are just after personal gain? No. They simply know how we work, and use that against us. Just because someone doesn’t have a gun does not mean they aren’t actively resisting the occupation. It makes the line between “civilian” and “rebel” very thin, and it has been doing that for a very long time now, by many people. Hell, I wouldn’t put it beyond Americans, in the unlikely event we were to ever get invaded, and be fighting street to street. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/67 "2004-04-07T18:29:39Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > How does that prove that they have no interest in freedom for the people? The civilians they surround themselves with are volunteers, not hostages - they know that the best way they can fight for their freedom is by hindering the US forces. > > Is it a screwed up way to fight? Yes. Does it show that the people are just after personal gain? No. Uhm…cite that they’re volunteers? The Beeb and AP don’t have that tidbit. If it’s true, nice to see these guys take a page out of Saddam’s playbook (remember the crowds spending the night in the palaces?) I don’t doubt that there’s probably some true believers in the crowd that think that “freedom” now instead of on June 30th is worth fighting for, but I can’t believe that their puppetmasters who recruit mothers to bring their children to shove in front of guns have the best interest of the people at heart. But at least they’re gambling on the American’s humanity, which is refreshing. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/68 "2004-04-07T18:41:47Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Uhm…cite that they’re volunteers? The Beeb and AP don’t have that tidbit. If it’s true, nice to see these guys take a page out of Saddam’s playbook (remember the crowds spending the night in the palaces?) I was speaking more generally - this type of fighting is all too common. I do not know if in this specific instance this was the case, but if you were in a mosque and people started shooting, would you hang around? > [@](#): > > I don’t doubt that there’s probably some true believers in the crowd that think that “freedom” now instead of on June 30th is worth fighting for That’s simple. They don’t believe (quite rightly) that they will be getting “freedom” on June 30th. What will happen is that we will install a prime minister that we approve of, give them an administrative government, which, of course, will ask for us to stay for the security, to which we’ll agree. The government won’t have that much freedom to do what it wants, and the military will retain control over the situation. This is how it was always planned. There will be no “freedom.” > [@](#): > > but I can’t believe that their puppetmasters who recruit mothers to bring their children to shove in front of guns have the best interest of the people at heart. They don’t think like we do. We have the advantage of sitting around at computers talking about their situation - they are in a position where they feel that they are fighting a desperate fight against a tyrannical evil nation invading them that will rob them of their way of life. Sound vaguely famiiliar? Well, the difference is that we actually did overthrow their government and occupied them militarily. They may have opposed Saddam - but they oppose us, too. I point to the old legends of a person saving and caring for a snake, and once bitten, they ask the snake why. It replies, “look, you knew I was a snake.” Trying to tell ourselves that they will love us and accept our rule with open arms is foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/69 "2004-04-07T18:56:55Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > I was speaking more generally - this type of fighting is all too common. I do not know if in this specific instance this was the case, but if you were in a mosque and people started shooting, would you hang around? Well it _is_ urban warfare. Civilians would have to make the choice between hiding behind as many walls as possible, or ducking out through the crossfire. Brick walls are very appealing when the bullets start to fly, but they don’t stand up well to high explosives. Happily, I don’t have to make this decision. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/70 "2004-04-07T19:26:02Z")
> [@verybdog](#): > > Heard from NPR tonight - Bush said “we love freedom, they (terrorists) hate freedom…that’s where the clash is” or to that effect. > > Is the world really that simple? Can we force people to love freedom??? > > My answer is No. A lot of people hate freedom of one sort or another. Why, right here in the United States, a majority of the population doesn’t want gay people to have the freedom to get married. And a smaller (but still politically well organized and influential) group didn’t even want adults to have the freedom to have various kinds of consensual sex. I’m sure Bush goes to church with people like that, and he certainly counts on their support at the polls. What gets me is that this ‘they hate freedom’ caricature of his doesn’t seem to have gained any depth or nuance [since right after 9/11](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010920-8.html), when he first uttered it. It’s like he’s modeling himself after a DC-comics hero of the 1960s, where there were good guys and bad guys, and the bad guys were just evil, not for any particular reason, but just to be evil. No complexity involved, no deeper understanding necessary. Same deal here - if they ‘hate freedom’, those who oppose us are beyond our comprehension, so there’s no point in trying to understand them. All we can do is make war on them. Same thing when, in the [Tim Russert interview](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4179618/), he repeatedly called Saddam Hussein a “madman” (six times, by my count). A madman will act unpredictably and capriciously; he is unconstrained by self-interest. We don’t know what he might do to us or when, and there’s no point in trying to figure him out; all we can do is to take him out. This is a very simple view of the world, to say the least. Saddam was clearly motivated by self-interest; he did respond sensibly to real threats. He hadn’t invaded anyone since we kicked his ass in 1991; he hadn’t used bio/chem weapons on anyone since then either, as best as we can tell. After he tried to have Bush the Elder assassinated in 1993, Clinton blew up his intelligence HQ via cruise missile, and let him know there was more where that came from, if called for. And no one (outside the fevered imagination of Laurie Mylroie of the AEI) has managed to trace an instance of terrorism outside Iraq back to Saddam since then. Similarly with al-Sadr’s followers. A violent crackdown (i.e. what we seem to be doing right now) will convince many Iraqis who weren’t all that keen on al-Sadr that they need to fight the intruder, not the local bad boy. Under the hating-freedom model, people who desire freedom won’t have a problem with the defeat of those who hate freedom, so our attacks on al-Sadr’s militia can’t generate new enemies for us, in BushWorld. In the cartoon universe that is BushWorld, one can draw an X through the face of each al-Qaeda lieutenant killed or captured, measuring progress in those terms. (Bush wanted to do exactly this, according to Clarke, whose facts haven’t successfully been contradicted yet.) And one can measure progress in Iraq by how many of the infamous “deck of cards” have likewise been killed or captured. No, Bush isn’t really a moron. But he plays one on TV, and in real life too. ---
**Author:** ![ready29003](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@ready29003](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ready29003)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/71 "2004-04-07T20:19:39Z")
It is starting to feel like the US is basically in the middle of an Iraqi civil war. Solution? hmmmm ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/72 "2004-04-07T20:39:54Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > THIS blow up might not even be our fault specifically (leaving aside for a moment that its ALL our fault for being there in the first place), but that makes no difference…it IS blowing appart. I had some similar thoughts while reading the recent additions to the thread. I agree with what I think you’re trying to say. Without making any decisions about whose fault is what, we’re _responsible_ for what goes on in Iraq even when things that go on are our fault. Kind of like if a storm blew a tree limb through your window- it’s not your fault, but it’s your responsibility to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/73 "2004-04-07T21:00:57Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > … Same thing when, in the [Tim Russert interview](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4179618/), he repeatedly called Saddam Hussein a “madman” (six times, by my count). A madman will act unpredictably and capriciously; he is unconstrained by self-interest. We don’t know what he might do to us or when, and there’s no point in trying to figure him out; all we can do is to take him out. > > This is a very simple view of the world, to say the least. Well, GW seems to be a very simple, insular and unreflective sort. It is breathtaking to me when I, from time to time, can comprehend that this guy is actually President of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/74 "2004-04-07T21:09:28Z")
It sure looks like it, doesn’t it? After Sunday, I was hoping we’d tell al-Sadr, “Okay, it was all a big mistake. Here’s your newspaper back,” and see if things calmed down. Instead, we’ve gone the massive-retaliation route, time-tested as a lose-the-hearts-and-minds technique. I think we’re fucked. The only question is, how bad is _Iraq_ fucked, and how can we best minimize their fuckedness? Our best chance to preserve _something_ out of this mess, ISTM, would be to find out what Sistani wants, and give it to him. The result would be a Shi’ite theocracy under Sharia law, but there would at least be an Iraq when we left, and someone in charge who would presumably have the power to mostly hold it together. If we hand over power to Chalabi and friends, they will be swept away. The Bushies’ dreams of fostering a Western-style democracy in Iraq are clearly down the tubes. (If you were going to pick a country for this experiment, dudes, why didn’t you at least pick one with no significant religious or ethnic divisions?) Not that there’s ever been any sort of road map to get there, or even a clear idea of what ‘there’ might look like: the Admin’s line was always, “we don’t want to tell the Iraqis what sort of government to have,” but never did our leaders even lay out any _competing possibilities_ for how a democratic Iraq might be organized. But we were quite happy to tell them that they had to open the floodgates to foreign investment, privatize state-owned sectors of the economy, and stuff like that. Right now, our main goal should be the prevention of out-and-out civil war once we purportedly hand the keys to the Iraqis. We could be looking at a “war of all against all”, a civil war with no front lines, and too many factions to get a handle on. There are far worse things in this world than Saddam, or even a radical Islamic state. And this is one of them. So we take the most powerful person around, give him the keys, wish him luck, and get the hell out of Dodge. That would be Sistani. Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/75 "2004-04-07T21:10:38Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Well, GW seems to be a very simple, insular and unreflective sort. It is breathtaking to me when I, from time to time, can comprehend that this guy is actually President of the United States. Try comprehending that a few thousand less than half the country supports him unquestionably. O\_o I wouldn’t mind this mental 6-year-old and his nannies running the government so much if I knew that half the population wasn’t ready and willing to march off in whatever direction he points without asking why (because, after all, we are at WAR). ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/76 "2004-04-07T21:15:27Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Well, GW seems to be a very simple, insular and unreflective sort. It is breathtaking to me when I, from time to time, can comprehend that this guy is actually President of the United States. I think even _Reagan_ had a more sophisticated worldview. And I’m aware of just how scary a thought that is. But I really think it’s true. Somebody please wake me up and tell me the past three and a half years have just been a bad dream. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/77 "2004-04-07T21:19:48Z")
> [@ready29003](#): > > It is starting to feel like the US is basically in the middle of an Iraqi civil war. True ! Except for one thing, the Shia and Sunni aren’t fighting each other. Instead, they’re increasingly united in one aim, to rid the country of the occupying army. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/78 "2004-04-07T21:22:49Z")
From [Juan Cole](http://www.juancole.com/2004_04_01_juancole_archive.html#108132804702558052)’s blog: > [@](#): > > Let’s look at the major battles on Tuesday: > > Baghdad/Kadhimiya Three US soldiers in the First Armored Division were killed in ambushes in the Shiite Kadhimiya district according to the Boston Globe. In the past, the middle-class Kadhimiya quarter has not been a center for radicalism, but anti-American sentiment is now spreading among the Shiites, and is no longer confined to the slum areas. > > Baghdad/ Sadr City: CNN reports continued scattered firefights in the slums of East Baghdad between US troops and the Army of the Mahdi. US armored columns were on patrol in this Shiite slum. US soldiers searched Muqtada’s offices in Sadr City. They also searched a nearby mosque, stomping into it with their boots on, which is considered sacrilegious in Islam. Some 57 Shiites have been killed in Sadr City since the uprising began on Sunday. > > Najaf CNN reports that Muqtada al-Sadr is now in complete control of the municipality of Najaf, a holy city of 500,000 inhabitants, occupying government buildings and police stations, and having taken control of the Shrine of Imam Ali. Muqtada’s supporters are streaming into the city from East Baghdad. Muqtada, who may now be in Najaf, called for a general strike, and demanded that Coalition forces withdraw from Iraqi cities and release all prisoners taken in recent clashes. The Boston Globe reports that Muqtada said, , ’ “America has shown its evil intentions, and the proud Iraqi people cannot accept it. They must defend their rights by any means they see fit,” Sadr said in a statement. “I’m prepared to have my own blood shed for what is holy to me.” He called on Sunnis and Shi’ites alike to fight occupation troops. ’ > > Karbala: Guerrillas in Karbala armed with rocket propelled grenades and machine guns fought running battles with Coalition troops, wounding three Polish soldiers and three Bulgarian ones. > > Nasiriyah: AFP is reporting the outbreak of a major gun battle in the southern city of Nasiriyah late Tuesday when a truce between the followers of Muqtada al-Sadr and the Italian contingent broke down. The Sadrists had announced the ceasefire at noon Iraq time to allow the Italians to withdraw, they said. At 6:30 pm Iraq time, gunfire between the two sides had broken out again. Earlier Tuesday, the Italians had tried to take control of bridges from the Sadrist militias in Nasiriyah, suffering twelve wounded. They killed 10 Iraqis and wounded 37, according to the Nasiriyah hospital. Guerrillas near Nasiriyah attacked a truck convoy, killing a Bulgarian truck driver. The Mahdi Army kidnapped and held 2 South Korean human rights workers from Sunday through Tuesday, but Korean authorities said they had been released. (This development reminds one of the terrible “hostage crisis” in Lebanon during the 1980s, and may be yet another tactic in the quiver of the Sadrists). Late reports early Weds. morning said that the Sadrists were now off the streets or had withdrawn from the city, and that the Italians were again in control. > > Kut Ukrainian soldiers fought with Army of the Mahdi militiamen over two bridges, which the Shiites had taken. The Ukrainians claimed to be in control of the town at the end of the day Tuesday, but > ’ a Sadr spokesman told Agence France-Presse that the Ukrainians only held a bridge in front of their base.’ (-Boston Globe) > > Amara Fighting also raged in the southern city of Amara, where British troops killed 15 Iraqis and wounded 8. About 6 British soldiers were wounded. > > Diwaniyah: CNN reports fighting on Tuesday in Diwaniyah between Army of the Mahdi troops and Spanish forces. > > Basra: The situation in Basra, where Sadrists had occupied the governor’s mansion, is murky, but CNN said it was “deteriorating rapidly.” The Mirror reports,: ’ British patrols in Basra came under heavy fire from Sadr’s black clothed fighters. [British Ministry of Defence officials said]: “Disturbances are ongoing in Basra and we are waiting for more information to clarify the situation.” ’ az-Zaman reported Wednesday morning that a truce had been reached between the British and the Sadrists, that the latter had withdrawn from the governor’s mansion, and that they had agreed to let the police resume their patrols. But this report is contemporaneous with the more ambiguous and ominous statements from the British foreign ministry that don’t seem as confident that the situation is under control. Looking at CNN, it looks like today was more of the same. Other than last November, there have been [more combat deaths in Iraq](http://lunaville.com/warcasualties/Timelines.aspx) this month than any month since Dubya did his victory dance on the aircraft carrier. And the month’s only a week old. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/79 "2004-04-07T21:25:30Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > However, kill a kid’s parents, and he’ll grow up with a loathing that can’t be trained or bought. > > We’re doing a lot of that right now. Look at Mr. Wayne for example. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2004, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294/80 "2004-04-07T23:09:40Z")
Fellow Dopers, we’ve been plundered. Exploited by that scurillous temple of deliberate hokum, _The Onion_. If you read the link, you will have no doubt that a form of plagiarism is afoot here. [http://www.theonion.com/onion3911/pt\_the\_war\_on\_iraq.html](http://www.theonion.com/onion3911/pt_the_war_on_iraq.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-more-soldiers-got-killed-whats-the-next-move/238294.md?page=5)