# (Iraq-Related) Am I the only one... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 3, 2005, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406 "2005-08-03T11:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/1 "2005-08-03T11:17:25Z")
… who roots for the insurgency? That’s all, really. I see the American invasion as the unjustifiable aggressive act of a global bully, and would dearly like the American/coalition forces to leave. Right now, that only looks like happening if the insurgency is victorious _a la_ the Viet Cong, so I root for them. Anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/2 "2005-08-03T11:21:59Z")
No, I don’t root for people who deliberately target civilians. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/3 "2005-08-03T11:22:15Z")
Strictly speaking, they’re not insurgents. They’re patriots. So, I wouldn’t quite say I root for them, but I’m sympathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/4 "2005-08-03T11:28:49Z")
Honestly, if you want us to leave, peace and prosperity in Iraq will get our asses out of there next week. But, if there is unrest, we don’t have much choice but to stay until the Iraq government gets things under control. It’s like the drunken idiot on the side of the road who thinks that the police will leave him alone if he just keeps resisting them. Not to mention that they do a much better job killing Iraqis and destroying Iraq infrastructure than they do killing soldiers and damaging army equipment. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/5 "2005-08-03T11:32:12Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Strictly speaking, they’re not insurgents. They’re patriots. True. I stand corrected. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/6 "2005-08-03T11:35:59Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Honestly, if you want us to leave, peace and prosperity in Iraq will get our asses out of there next week. > I’m skeptical. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > But, if there is unrest, we don’t have much choice but to stay until the Iraq government gets things under control. Why? No, really, who is holding a gun to your collective heads, that prevents you from leaving if you want to? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/7 "2005-08-03T11:37:52Z")
_that should be…_ > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Honestly, if you want us to leave, peace and prosperity in Iraq will get our asses out of there next week. I’m skeptical. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/8 "2005-08-03T11:38:10Z")
Patriots? “I regret that there is but one civilian I can kill for my country.” Thomas Painful ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/9 "2005-08-03T11:41:30Z")
Do the Iraqis whom those insurgents target consider those insurgents to be patriots? I join Liberal in seriously doubting that they do. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/10 "2005-08-03T11:45:41Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Patriots? It’s their country. They’re resisting an outside force. I don’t support their targeting civilians. I don’t believe that their attempts to destroy the infrastructure are doing more good than harm. But it is their turf. So they’re patriots, if misguided ones. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/11 "2005-08-03T11:49:14Z")
Not me. Besides their inexcusably murderous methods of targeting civilians, the insurgents’ chief goal appears to be basically to destroy whatever stability and self-determination the millions of responsible, peace-loving Iraqis (of all sects) have managed to cobble together, in order to provoke a full-scale sectarian civil war out of which they hope to extract a repressive Wahhabist theocracy controlling all or part of what’s left of Iraq when the civil war ends. Can’t get behind that, sorry. I yield to nobody in my detestation of this dishonestly planned and incompetently executed war of aggression, but it’s worth remembering that stupid American neocon imperialists are not the only bad guys in the world, and not always even the worst of them. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/12 "2005-08-03T11:50:21Z")
Apparently, “patriot” has changed meaning along with “freedom”. Targeting civilians is sufficient in and of itself to disqualify them from patriot status, as far as I’m concerned. Resisters in early America and Vichy France were patriots. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/13 "2005-08-03T11:52:17Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Do the Iraqis whom those insurgents target consider those insurgents to be patriots? I join Liberal in seriously doubting that they do. Of course not. But then, those targeted are mostly those cooperating with the coalition forces. Hardly makes _them_ objective either, does it? Look, let me say outright I don’t condone all their methods, some of the things they do are just plain fucked up. Doesn’t make their struggle any less legitimate, any more than a lot of necklacings of informers and collaborators here made the struggle against apartheid any less right. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/14 "2005-08-03T11:55:38Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Apparently, “patriot” has changed meaning along with “freedom”. Targeting civilians is sufficient in and of itself to disqualify them from patriot status, as far as I’m concerned. Resisters in early America and Vichy France were patriots. Do I really have to round up cites for what the resistance sometimes did ti Vichy collaborators? ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/15 "2005-08-03T11:56:20Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > No, I don’t root for people who deliberately target civilians. Sorry. So you don’t support either side? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/16 "2005-08-03T11:57:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > …but it’s worth remembering that stupid American neocon imperialists are not the only bad guys in the world, and **not always even the worst of them**. Outside of North Korea, we’re going to have to disagree on that bolded bit… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/17 "2005-08-03T12:01:28Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Targeting civilians is sufficient in and of itself to disqualify them from patriot status, as far as I’m concerned. Resisters in early America and Vichy France were patriots. To be fair, **Lib** , it appears that some of the pro-independence fighters in the American colonies also targeted civilians among the “Tories” or British loyalists. There probably isn’t a case in history where “patriotic” rebels didn’t commit some terrorist acts against those whom they considered “collaborators” with an oppressive regime. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Look, let me say outright I don’t condone all their methods, some of the things they do are just plain fucked up. > > Doesn’t make their struggle any less legitimate […] Well, but you didn’t ask if we thought the insurgents had a legitimate cause of struggle against the occupation. You asked whether we were rooting for them to win. And given the barbarity of their tactics plus the catastrophic destructiveness of their aims, the answer is overwhelmingly “no”. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/18 "2005-08-03T12:01:50Z")
Well the US would probably leave quicker if all the insurgency stopped and the politicians could just push through their pro-religion/anti-female constitution\* While I can understand why the insurgents fight I can’t support their attacks on civilians and innocents. I didn’t support US ‘Shock and Awe’ tactics either. Iraq is a bigger mess now than it was under SH IMO. Civil War will be very hard to dodge in the long term. The fuel resources will be part of power plays well into this century and the US will have a presence there for a long time to come. Bush and his admin were allowed to do this by both the US politicians and the majority of the population. I feel no guilt whatsoever in wanting the US to be burdened with the nightmare that is in no small part their own making. Maybe next time their will be more real debate and thinking and less nationalistic gung-ho jingoistic shite. \*If the leaked reports are to be believed. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/19 "2005-08-03T12:05:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Not me. Besides their inexcusably murderous methods of targeting civilians, the insurgents’ chief goal appears to be basically to destroy whatever stability and self-determination the millions of responsible, peace-loving Iraqis (of all sects) have managed to cobble together, in order to provoke a full-scale sectarian civil war out of which they hope to extract a repressive Wahhabist theocracy controlling all or part of what’s left of Iraq when the civil war ends. Well stated. I agree. Earth totters on axis, etc. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406/20 "2005-08-03T12:07:50Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > It’s their country. They’re resisting an outside force. It’s _not_ their country. The majority of the terrorists are coming over from Iran and Syria. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-related-am-i-the-only-one/315406.md?page=2)