# Iraq, the Media, and American Public Opinion **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 24, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-the-media-and-american-public-opinion/241754 "2004-04-24T03:38:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-the-media-and-american-public-opinion/241754/41 "2004-04-28T15:18:42Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > I didn’t counter your obvious statement, I said that there were perfectly valid reasons to think otherwise than you do. > > I said 40% of US public likely wanted Saddam out (as OP poll indicates) while 40% likely didn’t. What does it have to do with your list? Nothing. ``` You claim Saddam was the prime suspect... where did you get that from ? He was the prime suspect when ? Thinking Saddam was the 9-11 mastermind seems very little "valid". The US public didn't decide to invade Iraq. Bush did. What were the reasons Bush gave for invading then ? My list includes most of the reasons given... and most of these reasons appear to have been bloated or cherry picked. Or did Bush openly say toppling Saddam was the major reason ? ``` ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-the-media-and-american-public-opinion/241754/42 "2004-04-28T15:21:48Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Since some of the issues addressed in this and previous polls are the public’s awareness of **facts** , (opposed to the assessment of the split amongst equally valid “beliefs”), the evidence indicates that people are _not_ making “an informed decision.” There you go again with ‘people’ in general. I said 24% “_were making an informed decision_”. There is no such thing as people in general, btw. Otherwise You and I would be thinking but a single thought at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-the-media-and-american-public-opinion/241754/43 "2004-04-28T15:46:02Z")
> [@Rashak Mani](#): > > You claim Saddam was the prime suspect… where did you get that from ? He was the prime suspect when ? Saddam was the prime suspect immediately after 9-11. The possibility of Saddam involvement was immediately discussed everywhere. Nobody said, “Who, Saddam? How ridiculous!” True, his involvement was never proven, but that is not what I am talking about. > [@Rashak Mani](#): > > What were the reasons Bush gave for invading then ? My list includes most of the reasons given… and most of these reasons appear to have been bloated or cherry picked. Or did Bush openly say toppling Saddam was the major reason ? Bush presented a typical case fpr the prosecution, amassing everything negative he could find on Saddam. His objective was to remove Saddam. That’s what he said in the ultimatum. He didn’t say Saddam must open all the doors, he said “Saddam and his sons must leave Iraq”. THat’s how it was understood by other world powers. For example, at the final days before the invasion Russian envoy made [a final attempt to convince Saddam to leave](http://www.thehindu.com/thehindu/2003/04/13/stories/2003041301351400.htm). Not come compleately clean, but leave. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-the-media-and-american-public-opinion/241754/44 "2004-04-28T17:08:32Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Saddam was the prime suspect immediately after 9-11. The possibility of Saddam involvement was immediately discussed everywhere. **Nobody said, "Who, Saddam? How ridiculous!"** Sure they did. Here’s [what Richard Clarke had to say on Sept. 12:](http://www.iht.com/articles/512393.html) > [@](#): > > In his new book, “Against All Enemies,” Clarke recounts that the president pulled him and several other aides into the White House Situation Room on the **evening of Sept. 12, 2001** , and instructed them “to go back over everything, everything. See if Saddam did this. See if he’s linked in any way.” **Clarke was incredulous, he said in the book. “But, Mr. President, Al Qaeda did this,”** he said he responded. “I know, I know,” Bush answered, according to Clarke’s account, adding, But “see if Saddam was involved. Just look. I want to know any shred.” Last week, the White House said it had no record that Bush had even been in the Situation Room that day and said the president had no recollection of such a conversation. After independent corroboration, the white house backed off the denials, and admitted the meeting took place. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-the-media-and-american-public-opinion/241754/45 "2004-04-28T18:29:20Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Another likely explanation – though maybe not the whole explanation – is that the Right has been buying the playing field thanks to relaxed FCC regulations regarding media ownership. Right wing hate radio, Fox News, the general shift in media ownership to the right … the mass media consistently delivers the right wing message much more frequently and powerfully than the left wing message. Funny, you think that Jews, being the Evil Media Conspiracy would lean more liberal. Stupid competing conspiracy theories. Here’s something interesting about the Right-Wing hate radio: On Monday I was driving to New Orleans with my boss (a huge Rush fan, and a believer that GWB is like the second coming of Christ, only more impressive) and he, of course, turns on Gasbag Limbaugh. Something that got just _slipped_ in there was a cheap shot during one of his blurbs about checking out his ‘document stack’ online on John Kerry. Thrown into the hate speech about Kerry with the typical “Liberal blah blah blah” was “French-Looking”. So, apparently John Kerry looks “French”. Thanks Rush. Glad to see you’re still the voice of reason. How’s the hearing, you deaf bloated bag of shit? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2004, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-the-media-and-american-public-opinion/241754/46 "2004-04-28T23:56:35Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Thrown into the hate speech about Kerry with the typical “Liberal blah blah blah” was “French-Looking”. > > So, apparently John Kerry looks “French”. “The French-looking John Kerry” is a joke. It’s just a joke. He’s making fun of certain members of his audience. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-the-media-and-american-public-opinion/241754/47 "2004-04-29T00:04:51Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Saddam was the prime suspect immediately after 9-11. The possibility of Saddam involvement was immediately discussed everywhere. Nobody said, “Who, Saddam? How ridiculous!” True, his involvement was never proven, but that is not what I am talking about. hhhmm… nope. AQ was immediately the prime suspect. After all they had bombed the 2 embassies in Africa. Saddam was never suspected in any direct terrorist activity in the past at all ! (Unless invading Kuwait is a “terrorist” act). I’m talking about people with beyond high school mental abilities. ``` You could say that the common unwashed masses thought Saddam did it... but I seriously doubt that they came up with that spontaneosly. Everything from palestinians to iranians was a more "normal" thought... but not Saddam. (I don't remember Iraq being a major issue right at that time) ``` Follow that Richard Clarke link for more details about Bushthinking. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-the-media-and-american-public-opinion/241754/48 "2004-04-29T03:31:56Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Funny, you think that Jews, being the Evil Media Conspiracy would lean more liberal. Stupid competing conspiracy theories. Nice strawman. Allow me to beat the stuffing out of it. The proposition that the right wing has been buying the media is not a conspiracy theory because conspiracies involve secrecy, and there’s nothing secret going on here. Rupert Murdoch doesn’t secretly own Fox News. That jerk who runs Clear Channel doesn’t secretly own Clear Channel. The Moonies don’t secretly own the Washington Times. And there’s no big secret to the notion that wealthy people tend to own newspapers chains, broadcasting stations of various sorts, and that wealthy people tend to be conservative. An observation of a social phenomenon is not a conspiracy theory, and saying that it’s equivalent to the belief that the Jews conspire to control the media among right wing loonies is just the kind of self-serving baloney that people who like to present themselves as “balanced” tend to come up with. You’re not balanced, you’re just not paying attention. All your conspiracy accusation are baloney to us. When come back bring pie. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-the-media-and-american-public-opinion/241754/49 "2004-04-29T14:55:00Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > “The French-looking John Kerry” is a joke. It’s just a joke. He’s making fun of certain members of his audience. Really? Care to explain the joke? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-the-media-and-american-public-opinion/241754/50 "2004-04-29T15:00:56Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > Nice strawman. Allow me to beat the stuffing out of it. > > The proposition that the right wing has been buying the media is not a conspiracy theory because conspiracies involve secrecy, and there’s nothing secret going on here. Rupert Murdoch doesn’t secretly own Fox News. That jerk who runs Clear Channel doesn’t secretly own Clear Channel. The Moonies don’t secretly own the Washington Times. And there’s no big secret to the notion that wealthy people tend to own newspapers chains, broadcasting stations of various sorts, and that wealthy people tend to be conservative. > > An observation of a social phenomenon is not a conspiracy theory, and saying that it’s equivalent to the belief that the Jews conspire to control the media among right wing loonies is just the kind of self-serving baloney that people who like to present themselves as “balanced” tend to come up with. You’re not balanced, you’re just not paying attention. > > All your conspiracy accusation are baloney to us. When come back bring pie. Sigh. It wasn’t a straw man, it was a one-liner. It was making fun of the whackos who are convinced that the Evil Jews secretly control the media (along with everything else). You know, the big conspiracy that’s so super secret that every White Power Troglodyte knows about it because he and his bretheren are the only ones with the sense to see through The Big Lie. Going on to line 7 of my explanation of my one-liner, if the Right is buying up all the media (causing the trends in opinon being discussed), then, apparently the Evil Zionist Conspiracy is actually a load of horseshit. -Joe, line 11 of my one-liner explanation, understanding that when it actually posts it will be less lines. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-the-media-and-american-public-opinion/241754.md?page=2)