# Iraq Vet thoughts on Afganistan **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 19, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644 "2011-07-19T23:39:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/21 "2011-07-20T04:08:10Z")
The country is called Israel, not Isreal. I do think America’s aid to Israel needs to be dialed back, as does our aid to everyone. But it’s not because I want Israel to collapse, it’s because I think it would force Israel to become economically independent and I believe that would be a good thing for the world because Israel produces a lot of startup companies and innovative technology, and forcing them to do their own thing instead of taking money from America would stimulate positive developments. I mentioned Saudi Arabia. You come back with “Isreal.” It’s insane to draw an equivalency between the two. One is a gigantic oil-rich nation with shitloads of territory and a great deal of economic clout, and also influence over its Arab neighbors, _and_ ties to international terrorism. The other is a country the size of New Jersey with a few million Jews who really just want to be left the hell alone and, contrary to what people think, do not want to control the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/22 "2011-07-20T04:14:34Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > God forbid somebody criticize someone who wants to cut the tip of my sons penis off. The Jews don’t want to cut the tip of your son’s penis off. The Jews DO NOT FORCE THEIR FUCKING BELIEFS ON OTHER PEOPLE, _unlike_ almost every other religion on the planet. When are people ever going to understand this? Jews do not try to make non-Jews follow their rules. The Jews do not try to convert other people to Judaism. They do not “want” anyone other than their own people to be circumcised. The whole point of circumcision, Biblically, is to _set the Jews apart_ from the people of other religions. I will say it again: JEWS DO NOT TRY TO PUSH THEIR BELIEFS AND PRACTICES ON OTHER PEOPLE. That is not what the religion is about. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/23 "2011-07-20T04:26:17Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The Jews don’t want to cut the tip of your son’s penis off. The Jews DO NOT FORCE THEIR FUCKING BELIEFS ON OTHER PEOPLE, _unlike_ almost every other religion on the planet. When are people ever going to understand this? Jews do not try to make non-Jews follow their rules. The Jews do not try to convert other people to Judaism. They do not “want” anyone other than their own people to be circumcised. The whole point of circumcision, Biblically, is to _set the Jews apart_ from the people of other religions. > > I will say it again: JEWS DO NOT TRY TO PUSH THEIR BELIEFS AND PRACTICES ON OTHER PEOPLE. That is not what the religion is about. Do you even read what people post? Or do you just want to say what you want to say? See my previous post. Or not.. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/24 "2011-07-20T07:19:58Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The country is called Israel, not Isreal. > > I do think America’s aid to Israel needs to be dialed back, as does our aid to everyone. But it’s not because I want Israel to collapse, it’s because I think it would force Israel to become economically independent and I believe that would be a good thing for the world because Israel produces a lot of startup companies and innovative technology, and forcing them to do their own thing instead of taking money from America would stimulate positive developments. It would certainly stimulate the Israeli defence industry - already the 4th largest in the world - which is why America doesn’t want to stop sending Israel free weapons. If we started making them ourselves, we’d be an even bigger competitor. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/25 "2011-07-20T13:25:39Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Al Qaida in Afghanistan is not as much of a threat as it was before, because we have denied them safe haven in Afghanistan. The Pakinstani government is not openly friendly with Al Qaida, and makes considerable effort to combat them. Yeah, except when they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/26 "2011-07-20T14:21:25Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Do you even read what people post? Or do you just want to say what you want to say? See my previous post. Or not.. Yeah. Then why did you post what you did about teh jooz wanting your son’s foreskin? Did you really think that joke would play well with your audience? You’ve been here since 2004. You should know better than to say something like that. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/27 "2011-07-20T16:11:43Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > There is no reason at all to invade any of these Middle Eastern countries in the name of fighting terrorism when we hold in our hands the ultimate solution to terrorism: STOP BUYING OIL. I agree with this. > [@](#): > > In the '60s Kennedy decided America would go to the moon, and for the next decade, the best scientists and engineers worked their asses off to make that happen. A similar mandate needs to be declared by our current politicians: we will be off oil by 2020. It _can_ happen if we just had the will to do it. I have made this exact argument (IRL) many times. It needs to be a priority and the president needs to aggressively lead the charge and make this a mandate. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/28 "2011-07-20T16:12:35Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Would you give your life for Afganistan​? I spent a year fighting in Iraq. Did you? > > Have the wars in Afganistan and Iraq and yes Libya made us safer have they served our collective interest? I don’t think so. If human rights are so important why have we done nothing about child rape in Kyrgistan mass murder in Sudan prison camps in North Korea and China militancy in Indonesia lawlessness in Somalia and countless other atrocities? I think Iraq Afganistan and now Libya are meant to distract us from what’s really going on. What made you think you were joining a Supehero team when, in fact, you were just joining the US Army? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/29 "2011-07-20T16:36:40Z")
Wow, I thought I’d never have to point this out to a member of the military, but: Boo Hoo, you pays your nickel, and you takes your chances. No, I don’t need to know the way to the nearest recruiter, they advertise. Not only that, I scored a perfect on the ASVAB, and they wouldn’t leave me alone for years. So, I know how to get in touch with them. You want to know why I didn’t sign up? Because I have a problem with someone telling me that I have to go somewhere to fight and possibly die for reasons that even they themselves don’t really control. I knew that was part of being in the military when I was a teenager. The best lot you can hope for while being in the military is that you send other people off to fight and die. Even that’s a tough row to hoe. Knowing this, I stayed the hell out of the organization. I am genuinely sorry that you had to serve in that shithole of a war in Iraq. I was vocally against it before we went in. It was a waste of people, time and money no matter how you measure it. However the government at the time had decided they wanted to go in before 9/11, and that event gave them the excuse they wanted. As far as Afghanistan goes, we had a genuine reason to go in, and we appear to be withdrawing in as orderly a manner as can be expected. You’re a bit late in being all butthurt about it. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/30 "2011-07-20T16:40:30Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > What made you think you were joining a Supehero team when, in fact, you were just joining the US Army? To be fair, among the reasons for sending troops to the Middle East, human rights is sometimes near the top. It does seem a bit insincere since we don’t invade countries who don’t have oil over human rights concerns. > [@George W. Bush](#): > > No President has ever done more for human rights than I have. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/31 "2011-07-20T16:43:41Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Would you like the phone number for your nearest recruiter? Or is it only important Enough for others to die? Having served in combat I think it should be an all or nothing proposition. Either we all sacrifice for what we think is important or none of us do. You know, you’ve made a few very good points in this thread, but… did we have a draft while I wasn’t paying attention? You volunteered, correct? ---
**Author:** ![wisernow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@wisernow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wisernow)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/32 "2011-07-20T19:49:03Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > The Pakinstani government is not openly friendly with Al Qaida, and makes considerable effort to combat them. I don’t actually see any credible evidence of the ‘considerable’ effort. Where do you think the Taliban went when they were chased out of Afghanistan? Pakistan is just as bad as Afghanistan, and worse because they have nukes. And it was the money they got from the US that they used to get those nukes. Somehow the US always seems to support those who later come back to bite them. First it was the Taliban in Afghanistan, and now it will be Pakistan. Just wait… ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/33 "2011-07-21T00:18:07Z")
I served in Iraq. I continue the fight today. Does that mean I get to trump anything **askeptic** says? Yes, obviously Afghanistan was important. Would I sacrifice my life for it? No. But I’d sacrifice some Afghanis for it. Since the war started, we’ve completely dismantled al Qaeda. We’re killing leaders left and right today. They’re so powerless, it’s laughable. It was worth it. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > The Taliban doesn’t give a shit one or the other about the US. They will fight us in their country, but not outside it. Al Queda was a small entity that we chased out of Afghanistan a long time ago. The longer we stay in Afghanistan, the more we feed al Queda’s recruiting process and the more we get Pakistani militants pissed off at us. They are a much bigger danger to The West than anyone in Afghanistan. First of all, I don’t know how many times I have to say it, but there’s no /u/ in al Qaeda. Second of all, we’re not feeding al Qaeda’s recruitment process. We’re defeating them handily. There are less and less al Qaeda members every day because we’re so efficient at killing them. You know what _would_ feed their process? Leaving in defeat. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/34 "2011-07-21T01:41:03Z")
If you have to be in the military before you can argue in favor of military action, it seems only fair that to argue against military action, you must never have been in the military. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/35 "2011-07-21T03:02:30Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > I think anytime the US decides to embark on combat operations a draft should be instituted. No exceptions no deferrments. If it is not worth your life (i am not refering to you AD i know you have been there and done that) its not worth anyone’s life. How did you wind up fighting in the Middle East, **askeptic**? Oh, yeah…you ENLISTED, didn’t you? Well, you know what happens when people enlist in the military? If war breaks out, some of them have to go fight in it. The military doesn’t exist just so you can have a cushy job, good benefits and paid education. It exists to protect U.S. interests and our allies, and to fight battles when our civilian leadership deems it necessary. Nothing unfair is going on here. We have a volunteer military. YOU VOLUNTEERED to become part of it! And when you did, you also volunteered to take orders from people you might not like and to fight wars you may not agree with. Tough shit. Them’s the breaks. In every conflict, there are people in military service who don’t think it’s right. If you didn’t want to entrust other people’s judgement as to when you should fight and die, then you shouldn’t have enlisted. Period. No great injustice is being done because the government doesn’t inscript every citizen anytime military action of some sort is called for. Instead, it relies upon people who’ve already said they’d be willing to fight if ordered to do so, and who have taken pay and received education and benefits in return for having done so. You want to get on your high horse and protest that the wars we’re involved in are unjust? Then knock yourself out. That is your privilege. But don’t try to convince everyone that the U.S. is somehow being unfair to you or anyone else because it sends you to fight and not everyone else. YOU signed up for it! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/36 "2011-07-21T04:19:41Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > There is no reason at all to invade any of these Middle Eastern countries in the name of fighting terrorism when we hold in our hands the ultimate solution to terrorism: STOP BUYING OIL. > > Turn off that Saudi oil spigot and we will see the terrorists’ funding dry up. > > Better for the environment too. America should be totally off oil. In the '60s Kennedy decided America would go to the moon, and for the next decade, the best scientists and engineers worked their asses off to make that happen. A similar mandate needs to be declared by our current politicians: we will be off oil by 2020. It _can_ happen if we just had the will to do it. Yeah, good luck with that. Sadly, it’s all about the $$$$$$$. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/37 "2011-07-21T05:30:01Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Would you give your life for Afganistan​? Nope, but GWB would and did: The re-elected President and oil man who served in the skies about Texas during Vietnam, the re-elected Presidet with a Vice President “who had better things to do” during the same conflict. The man whose election and re-elction was largely funded by corporations that benefitted from his subsequent policies. Do you really think those people ever gave a fuck? ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/38 "2011-07-21T08:38:49Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Would you give your life for Afganistan​? If I’m gonna get my balls blown off for a word, my word is “poontang”. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/39 "2011-07-21T11:36:55Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > The Afghani government harbored and gave aid to the organization that has made the single most destructive attack on American soil ever. More destructive than the Confederate States of America? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644/40 "2011-07-21T13:29:11Z")
> [@villa](#): > > More destructive than the Confederate States of America? Did they fly planes into NYC skyscrapers? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vet-thoughts-on-afganistan/589644.md?page=3)