# Iraq Vote: early returns suggest Islamist Government **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vote-early-returns-suggest-islamist-government/336547 "2005-12-21T00:56:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2005, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vote-early-returns-suggest-islamist-government/336547/21 "2005-12-23T14:02:32Z")
Still, is anyone really surprised by this outcome? It’s about what a reasonable person would have figured, no? Ba’athism was about as secular as you could get in that part of the world, so what are the Shi’ites going to do, offer more secularism? It wouldn’t make sense. ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vote-early-returns-suggest-islamist-government/336547/22 "2005-12-24T06:35:01Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > Still, is anyone really surprised by this outcome? It’s about what a reasonable person would have figured, no? Ba’athism was about as secular as you could get in that part of the world, so what are the Shi’ites going to do, offer more secularism? It wouldn’t make sense. I am not suprised. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vote-early-returns-suggest-islamist-government/336547/23 "2005-12-24T09:50:22Z")
There are now widespread accusations of fraud, the election commissioner has resigned, and today 200,000 people are marching in Baghdad. This is going to get interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vote-early-returns-suggest-islamist-government/336547/24 "2005-12-24T20:29:34Z")
Some interesting comments from an [Iraqi Blog](http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/2005/12/more-on-election-results-crisis.html): > [@](#): > > On the other hand the election commission made another update; A’adil al-Lami from the commission said today that they’re examining some 900 ballot boxes that showed suspicious results but he also said that these are not among the boxes that had their results announced. Also he mentioned that total number of complaints reached more than 1,500 including up to 35 major complaints (red zone or red flag) but he played down the significance of these complaints saying that even if all these complaints were valid, they will not significantly affect the final results. > > Anyway, the real effort now seems to be what President Talabani is doing trying to reach an agreement with all concerned parties to form a national unity government. > Yesterday Talabani met Adnan al-Dulaimi from the Accord Front and asked him to stick to the legal ways in making their complaints and urged the Accord Front to stay away from the language of violence and threats. > … > Ridha Jawad Taqi from the SCIRI said that al-Hakkem is making lots of contacts with many parties including Allawi because “we in the SCIRI believe that we should not form the government alone and that all the other parties must have a role in it”. > … > in his first comment since the elections, Ayatollah Sistani called on the political parties to unite and form a government that serves national unity. Interesting developments. There are accusations of fraud against the Kurds, who some say stacked the ballot boxes to ensure they controlled the oil-rich regions. Other allegations of election fraud among the Shia. However, there seems to be a pretty large bloc of people from all parts of Iraq who are generally interested in national unity, and who understand that you can’t allow one part of the government to completely dominate and expect Iraq to survive. Al-Sistani is a major influence among the Shiites, and he’s calling for compromises for national unity. And so far, the people who think they got the shaft are responding not with terror, but with peaceful demonstrations and demands for legal redress, which is a good sign. Still, it’s early in the process, and this could go in any direction. ---
**Author:** ![buns3000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c89c15/32.png) [@buns3000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buns3000)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vote-early-returns-suggest-islamist-government/336547/25 "2005-12-28T02:21:17Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > There are now widespread accusations of fraud, the election commissioner has resigned, and today 200,000 people are marching in Baghdad. This is going to get interesting. Well, that certainly sounds like democracy, US-style! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vote-early-returns-suggest-islamist-government/336547/26 "2005-12-28T04:26:42Z")
> [@buns3000](#): > > Well, that certainly sounds like democracy, US-style! They should either send all the ballots to be counted in Florida or at least ask for a consultation. I bet the hanging chads guys are still about somewhere… -XT ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vote-early-returns-suggest-islamist-government/336547/27 "2005-12-28T04:47:28Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > There are now widespread accusations of fraud, the election commissioner has resigned, and today 200,000 people are marching in Baghdad. This is going to get interesting. What’s that Chinese curse again? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vote-early-returns-suggest-islamist-government/336547/28 "2005-12-28T05:07:10Z")
[Knight Ridder: Kurds in Iraqi army proclaim loyalty to militia](http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/world/13495317.htm) > [@](#): > > Kurdish leaders have inserted more than 10,000 of their militia members into Iraqi army divisions in northern Iraq to lay the groundwork to swarm south, seize the oil-rich city of Kirkuk and possibly half of Mosul, Iraq’s third-largest city, and secure the borders of an independent Kurdistan. > … > “It doesn’t matter if we have to fight the Arabs in our own battalion,” said Gabriel Mohammed, a Kurdish soldier in the Iraqi army who was escorting a Knight Ridder reporter through Kirkuk. “Kirkuk will be ours.” ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vote-early-returns-suggest-islamist-government/336547/29 "2005-12-28T05:19:38Z")
And I’ll counter that with some good news, best described by [This Iraqi Blogger](http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/) Basically, it sounds like the UIA (the main Shiite bloc) is promising a unity government, and all the other parties have sort of collected together as a unity platform and are demanding concessions, and they are currently in negotiations. Basically, the Shiites are saying that even though they have the most voting power, they will govern for the good of all Iraq and are promising various protections of minority interests. It may yet be worked out, and in fact it could be this outcome that drives a real unity movement that may not have existed had each faction gotten equal representation. Of course, it could all blow up and go to hell, too. ---
**Author:** ![First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4491bb/32.png) [@First\_Amongst\_Daves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/First_Amongst_Daves)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vote-early-returns-suggest-islamist-government/336547/30 "2005-12-28T05:21:42Z")
> [@Patty O'Furniture](#): > > [Christian Science Monitor:](http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1221/p01s03-woiq.html) > > If this result holds in January, won’t this more closely align Iraq with Iran? Is this major bad news for the Bush Administration? > > Thoughts? Richard Armitrage in an interview in _The Diplomat_ two issues ago described how he thought the big winner out of the invasion and occupation was going to be Iran. Armitrage implied a “Greater Persia” was not outside the realm of possibility. High level exchanges have already occurred between Iran and Iraq. If that happens in fact or in influence, watch out for Turkey joining the EU: the Turks will be under pressure to allow the existence of Kurdistan to create a secular regime in an oil-rich area, and the trade-off for the Turks would be EU membership. I doubt it will be bad news of the Bush Administration as its unlikely to occur in the near term: I think it would be a problem in the medium-term (assuming you think conservative Islamist theocracies with nuclear ambitions are bad news, and also if you think Iran is unlikely to undergo a liberal social revolution in the next 20 years). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-vote-early-returns-suggest-islamist-government/336547.md?page=1)