# Iraq was free of torture chambers after invading? Bush lie got bigger. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 19, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040 "2006-03-19T20:35:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/1 "2006-03-19T20:35:51Z")
“Iraq is free of rape rooms and torture chambers.”—President Bush, remarks to 2003 Republican National Committee Presidential Gala, Oct. 8, 2003 [http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article\_display.jsp?vnu\_content\_id=1002199231](http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002199231) > [@](#): > > ‘NYT’ Sunday Bombshell: Secret U.S. Torture Site in Iraq > > By E&P Staff > > Published: March 18, 2006 9:00 PM ET > > NEW YORK Just in time for the third anniversary of the Iraq war, The New York Times offers a bombshell account Sunday on a secret U.S. torture facility in that country that remained in business even after the Abu Ghraib abuses became known. > > The article by Eric Schmitt and Carolyn Marshall reveals that an elite Special Operations forces unit took one of Saddam Hussein’s former torture centers near Baghdad Airport and made it their own. They called it the Black Room. > > “In the windowless, jet-black garage-size room, some soldiers beat prisoners with rifle butts, yelled and spit in their faces and, in a nearby area, used detainees for target practice in a game of jailer paintball,” the reporters relate. "Their intention was to extract information to help hunt down Iraq’s most-wanted terrorist, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, according to Defense Department personnel who served with the unit or were briefed on its operations. > > "The Black Room was part of a temporary detention site at Camp Nama, the secret headquarters of a shadowy military unit known as Task Force 6-26. Located at Baghdad International Airport, the camp was the first stop for many insurgents on their way to the Abu Ghraib prison a few miles away. > > "Placards posted by soldiers at the detention area advised, ‘NO BLOOD, NO FOUL.’ The slogan, as one Defense Department official explained, reflected an adage adopted by Task Force 6-26: ‘If you don’t make them bleed, they can’t prosecute for it.’ According to Pentagon specialists who worked with the unit, prisoners at Camp Nama often disappeared into a detention black hole, barred from access to lawyers or relatives, and confined for weeks without charges. ‘The reality is, there were no rules there,’ another Pentagon official said. It is time to say that the “a few bad apples” excuse was bullshit. It is painfully clear that if there were orders not to torture they were relaxed or not enforced regarding the interrogation of suspects. Here you have to take into account that more than half of the captured ones that ended in Abu Ghraib were falsely accused or the evidence was crap. [http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0405/14/asb.00.html](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0405/14/asb.00.html) No wonder Torture Boy Cheney wanted to get torture exemptions to the intelligence agencies. …\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ …|…| …| **PUTZ!** …| …|\_\_\_\_\_\_\_| … **/** .:mad: ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/2 "2006-03-19T20:44:39Z")
Want to take a guess how much effect this will have on the way our government works? -Joe, thinking of a number between zero and zero ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/3 "2006-03-19T21:15:30Z")
Ahem… why do you hate America **GIGObuster**? Having gone through this song and dance with some of our resident locksteppers I wouldn’t hold out much hope that reality will penetrate their thick skulls. Expect evasions along the lines of “This wasn’t torture, it was ‘only’ abuse!” I guess I’d have more outrage, but my outrage meter is busted and I’ve known about stuff like this for quite some time now. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/4 "2006-03-19T22:00:11Z")
Hardly surprising that the US will not sign up for the international courts of justice, the fear of ‘political’ prosecutions must be a real obstacle eh ? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/5 "2006-03-19T23:26:43Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Ahem… why do you hate America **GIGObuster**? > > Having gone through this song and dance with some of our resident locksteppers I wouldn’t hold out much hope that reality will penetrate their thick skulls. Expect evasions along the lines of “This wasn’t torture, it was ‘only’ abuse!” No, they’ll simply say “So what. We don’t cut off their heads, thus we’re better then them”. No matter what we do. ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/6 "2006-03-19T23:48:18Z")
Wow. Must be a slow day for Bush-Bitchers if you have to dig a quote out from THREE FUCKING YEARS AGO just to have an angle for a pitting. Got anything on Nixon? How about George Washington? Bring it all out! I think Bush is the worst president to come down the pipe in US history, and I’m active duty military, but I think these pittings are fucking lame. Christ, 3 years ago? You couldn’t find something he said in the recent past? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/7 "2006-03-19T23:55:10Z")
> [@Stinkpalm](#): > > Wow. Must be a slow day for Bush-Bitchers if you have to dig a quote out from THREE FUCKING YEARS AGO just to have an angle for a pitting. Got anything on Nixon? How about George Washington? Bring it all out! > > I think Bush is the worst president to come down the pipe in US history, and I’m active duty military, but I think these pittings are fucking lame. Christ, 3 years ago? You couldn’t find something he said in the recent past? I’m entirely confused by this. It’s not his statement from 3 years ago that’s being pitted. It’s the new findings that there are torture rooms, which prove that earlier statement to be a lie. Should we just forget about anything politicians said after a time limit? “Why, yes, I did claim that \ was the case, but that was years ago! Who cares if I lied about \! Let’s draw a line and move on.” ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/8 "2006-03-20T00:05:04Z")
**Stinkpalm** , I think you’re missing the point that the three-year-old quote has just been definitively proven incorrect. When Clinton said “I did not have sexual relations with that woman”, was the impeachment invalid because he had said it in 1998, not 1999 when he was prosecuted? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/9 "2006-03-20T00:06:47Z")
> [@Stinkpalm](#): > > Wow. Must be a slow day for Bush-Bitchers… The only thing this lacks is, “Yeah, but Bill Clinton…!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/10 "2006-03-20T00:07:00Z")
Oh bollocks, I swear **Revenant Threshold** ’s post wasn’t there when I previewed, yet it seems to have been posted 10 minutes before mine. But since that’s in the past, it’s invalid. 😉 Anyway, his is a more eloquent way of putting it. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/11 "2006-03-20T00:14:21Z")
> [@Stinkpalm](#): > > Wow. Must be a slow day for Bush-Bitchers if you have to dig a quote out from THREE FUCKING YEARS AGO just to have an angle for a pitting. Got anything on Nixon? How about George Washington? Bring it all out! The “statute of limitations” on this sort of thing is shorter than the term of office, now? Anyway, **Stinkpalm** has a point. Maybe the thinking has changed in the past two-and-a-half years, and Bush has been speaking truthfully on the subject _since_ then. Last year [he said](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/04/20050428-9.html): > [@](#): > > They want to go back to the old days of tyranny and darkness, torture chambers and mass graves. I believe we’re making really good progress in Iraq… ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/12 "2006-03-20T00:18:11Z")
They aren’t torture chambers! When the US does the exact same thing in the exact same place it is ‘assertive intelligence gathering’ or somesuch. You think this is a joke or throwaway? No, this is the pissant wordplay that the actual US follows to be able to state hand-on-heart that it doesn’t engage in torture & etc. See further: - torture memos - Ashcroft and Gonzales - extraordinary rendition - Guantanamo Bay - camp x-ray ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/13 "2006-03-20T00:23:56Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Last year [he said](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/04/20050428-9.html): Pffft. Just like You Libruls [sup]tm[/sup], you think that just because you can show a history of deliberate lies made by the President, year after year after year, that it means anything? Get with the program. Unless he said it yesterday it doesn’t count. And if he did say it yesterday, it must be true. To think otherwise means that you hate the US military and freedom, apple pie, and your mother. You don’t hate your mother, do you? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/14 "2006-03-20T00:27:55Z")
> [@Stinkpalm](#): > > Wow. Must be a slow day for Bush-Bitchers if you have to dig a quote out from THREE FUCKING YEARS AGO just to have an angle for a pitting. Got anything on Nixon? How about George Washington? Bring it all out! > > I think Bush is the worst president to come down the pipe in US history, and I’m active duty military, but I think these pittings are fucking lame. Christ, 3 years ago? You couldn’t find something he said in the recent past? Wow, The TAS\* in action. :rolleyes: That quote was indeed from three fucking years ago because that is what Bush was saying back then and it was after the time when this started, **the news reported today** deals with a different torture place that was not Abu Grahaib, meaning that the previous excuse that it was “just a few bad apples” does not fly. But let me show how silly you are: _Iraq is more free every day. The lives of the citizens are improving every day. And one thing is for certain; there won’t be any more mass graves and torture rooms and rape rooms._ George W. Bush Remarks to Reporters January 12, 2004 Helen Thomas questions McClellan in the White House, **Nov. 8, 2005** :: > [@](#): > > Why does Bush say “We do not torture,” while Cheney asks Congress to approve CIA torture? > > Q: I’d like you to clear up, once and for all, the ambiguity about torture. Can we get a straight answer? The President says we don’t do torture, but Cheney – > > A: That’s about as straight as it can be. > > Q: Yes, but Cheney has gone to the Senate and asked for an exemption on – > > A: No, he has not. Are you claiming he’s asked for an exemption on torture? No, that’s – > > Q: He did not ask for that? > > A: – that is inaccurate. > > Q: Are you denying everything that came from the Hill, in terms of torture? > > A: No, you’re mischaracterizing things. And I’m not going to get into discussions we have – > > Q: Can you give me a straight answer for once? > > A: Let me give it to you, just like the President has. We do not torture. He does not condone torture and he would never – > > Q: I’m asking about exemptions. > > A: Let me respond. And he would never authorize the use of torture. We have an obligation to do all that we can to protect the American people. We are engaged – > > Q: That’s not the answer I’m asking for – > > A: It is an answer – because the American people want to know that we are doing all within our power to prevent terrorist attacks from happening. There are people in this world who want to spread a hateful ideology that is based on killing innocent men, women and children. We saw what they can do on September 11th – > > Q: He didn’t ask for an exemption – > > A: – and we are going to – > > Q: – answer that one question. I’m asking, is the administration asking for an exemption? > > A: I am answering your question. The President has made it very clear that we are going to do – > > Q: You’re not answering – yes or no? > > A: No, you don’t want the American people to hear what the facts are, Helen, and I’m going to tell them the facts. > > Q: I’m asking you, yes or no, did we ask for an exemption? > > A: And let me respond. You’ve had your opportunity to ask the question. Now I’m going to respond to it. > > Q: If you could answer in a straight way. > > A: And I’m going to answer it, just like the President – I just did, and the President has answered it numerous times. > > Q: Yes or no? > > A: Our most important responsibility is to protect the American people. We are engaged in a global war against Islamic radicals who are intent on spreading a hateful ideology, and intent on killing innocent men, women and children. > > Q: I am asking, Did we ask for an exemption? > > A: We are going to do what is necessary to protect the American people. > > Q: Is that the answer? > > A: We are also going to do so in a way that adheres to our laws and to our values. We have made that very clear. The President directed everybody within this government that we do not engage in torture. We will not torture. He made that very clear. > > Q: Are you denying we asked for an exemption? > > A: Helen, we will continue to work with the Congress on the issue that you brought up. The way you characterize it, that we’re asking for exemption from torture, is just flat-out false, because there are laws that are on the books that prohibit the use of torture. And we adhere to those laws. > > Q: We did ask for an exemption; is that right? I mean, be simple – this is a very simple question. > > A: I just answered your question. The President answered it last week. > > Another reporter: What are we asking for? > > Another reporter: Would you characterize what we’re asking for? > > A: We’re asking to do what is necessary to protect the American people in a way that is consistent with our laws and our treaty obligations. And that’s what we – > > Another reporter: Why does the CIA need an exemption from the military? > > A: David, let’s talk about people that you’re talking about who have been brought to justice and captured. You’re talking about people like Khalid Shaykh Muhammad; people like Abu Zubaydah. > > Q: I’m asking you – > > A: No, this is facts about what you’re talking about. > > Another reporter: Why does the CIA need an exemption from rules that would govern the conduct of our military in interrogation practices? > > A: There are already laws and rules that are on the books, and we follow those laws and rules. What we need to make sure is that we are able to carry out the war on terrorism as effectively as possible, not only – > > Another reporter: What does that mean? > > A: What I’m telling you right now – not only to protect Americans from an attack, but to prevent an attack from happening in the first place. And, you bet, when we capture terrorist leaders, we are going to seek to find out information that will protect attacks – that will prevent attacks from happening in the first place. But we have an obligation to do so. Our military knows this; all people within the United States government know this. We have an obligation to do so in a way that is consistent with our laws and values. Now, the people that you are bringing up – you’re talking about in the context, and I think it’s important for the American people to know, are people like Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, Abu Zubaydah, Ramzi Binalshibh – these are – these are dangerous killers. > > Another reporter: So they’re all killers? > > Q: Did you ask for an exemption on torture? That’s a simple question, yes or no. > > A: No. And we have not. That’s what I told you at the beginning. > > Another reporter: You want to reserve the ability to use tougher tactics with those individuals who you mentioned. > > A: Well, obviously, you have a different view from the American people. I think the American people understand the importance of doing everything within our power and within our laws to protect the American people. > > Another reporter: Scott, are you saying that Cheney did not ask – > > Another reporter: What is it that you want the – what is it that you want the CIA to be able to do that the U.S. Armed Forces are not allowed to do? > > A: I’m not going to get into talking about national security matters, Bill. I don’t do that, because this involves – > > Another reporter: This would be the exemption, in other words. > > A: This involves information that relates to doing all we can to protect the American people. And if you have a different view – obviously, some of you on this room – in this room have a different view, some of you on the front row have a different view. > > Another reporter: We simply are asking a question. > > Q: What is the Vice President – what is the Vice President asking for? > > A: It’s spelled out in our statement of administration policy in terms of what our views are. That’s very public information. In terms of our discussions with members of Congress – > > Another reporter: No, it’s not – > > A: In terms of our members – like I said, there are already laws on the books that we have to adhere to and abide by, and we do. And we believe that those laws and those obligations address these issues. > > Another reporter: So then why is the Vice President continuing to lobby on this issue? If you’re very happy with the laws on the books, what needs change? > > A: Again, you asked me – you want to ask questions of the Vice President’s office, feel free to do that. We’ve made our position very clear, and it’s spelled out on our website for everybody to see. > > Q: We don’t need a website, we need you from the podium. > > A: And what I just told you is what our view is. > > Another reporter: But Scott, do you see the contradiction – > > [McClellan then takes the next question from another reporter.] - Time line Avoidance System, method #1: purposely ignore when it happened. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/15 "2006-03-20T01:35:30Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Get with the program. Unless he said it yesterday it doesn’t count. And if he did say it yesterday, it must be true. To think otherwise means that you hate the US military and freedom, apple pie, and your mother. I think you need to recheck your history. You should have said: Unless he said it yesterday it doesn’t count. And if he did say it yesterday, it must be true. If there’s reason to suspect it’s not true, we need to wait until all the facts are in. Three years later, when the investigation is complete, it will be ‘ancient history’ and we have ‘more important things to worry about now’. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/16 "2006-03-20T04:08:50Z")
Y’know, after reading the transcript **GIGObuster** posted, I’m going to go out on a limb and predict that Scotty “Weasel” McClellan will snap and machine-gun the East Wing before Bush’s second term is over. They’ll eventually find him hiding behind the lectern in the press room rocking and muttering to himself, “Thrown to the wolves, four times a week…thrown to the wolves…” ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/17 "2006-03-20T04:25:27Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Helen Thomas questions McClellan in the White House, **Nov. 8, 2005** :: Man, I love that crabby old broad. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/18 "2006-03-20T05:57:12Z")
> [@](#): > > **Merijeek** : Unless he said it yesterday it doesn’t count. And if he did say it yesterday, it must be true. If there’s reason to suspect it’s not true, we need to wait until all the facts are in. Three years later, when the investigation is complete, it will be ‘ancient history’ and we have ‘more important things to worry about now’. Damn, you’ve got it nailed! You might enjoy [this “ancient” commentary](http://www.utilitarian.net/singer/by/20040325.htm) about President Bush’s moral compass from two years ago. It was written by philosopher Pete Singer. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/19 "2006-03-20T07:56:58Z")
I like this quote from the NYT article > [@](#): > > **[From Sunday’s New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/19/international/middleeast/19abuse.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)**: (reg req) > > The documents and interviews also reflect a culture clash between the free-wheeling military commandos and the more cautious Pentagon civilians working with them that escalated to a tense confrontation. At one point, one of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld’s top aides, Stephen A. Cambone, ordered a subordinate to “get to the bottom” of any misconduct. > > Most of the people interviewed for this article were midlevel civilian and military Defense Department personnel who worked with Task Force 6-26 and said they witnessed abuses, or who were briefed on its operations over the past three years. > > Many were initially reluctant to discuss Task Force 6-26 because its missions are classified. But when pressed repeatedly by reporters who contacted them, they agreed to speak about their experiences and observations out of what they said was **anger and disgust over the unit’s treatment of detainees** and **the failure of task force commanders to punish misconduct more aggressively**. The critics said the harsh interrogations **yielded little information** to help capture insurgents or save American lives. Emphasis added. There are patriots within the US government. But they are not in charge. Wild idea: as an alternative to sleep deprivation, beatings and simulated drownings, maybe we could try _standard police investigative techniques_. It worked with [the Shining Path’s founder, Abimael Guzman](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400E1D6153BF936A1575AC0A962958260), when electro-torture had failed. It just might work with [al-Zarqawi](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601/). Hey, it’s worth a try. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040/20 "2006-03-20T10:49:52Z")
> [@Measure for Measure](#): > > … > Wild idea: as an alternative to sleep deprivation, beatings and simulated drownings, maybe we could try _standard police investigative techniques_. It worked with [the Shining Path’s founder, Abimael Guzman](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400E1D6153BF936A1575AC0A962958260), when electro-torture had failed. It just might work with [al-Zarqawi](http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4431601/). Hey, it’s worth a try. Again with the fallacy. Sure, sure, this standard investigation like the police it would work if it was the information you wanted. But no look at this, the depriving sleep, those beatings and oh yes too, those drownings; those are the object and purpose of the interrogations. It’s all part of the wider reason for to go and invade into that country. What? You think there was some benevolent reasons, like father Christmas. Is that what it looks like to you? It was about the beatings. All about it, that’s what I’m telling you. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraq-was-free-of-torture-chambers-after-invading-bush-lie-got-bigger/349040.md?page=2)