# Iraqi Army Mutiny (South Vietnam Rerun) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 25, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211 "2006-08-25T15:42:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/1 "2006-08-25T15:42:21Z")
I was reading the Washington Post today and I came across an interesting article. It’s in the ‘A’ section if anyone wants to read it or pick up a copy…and it’s about how the British were handing over a base to the new Iraqi government’s army. It was supposed to be a triumph for US policy, with big brass bands beating drums about the triumphant re-emergence of the military of the government of Iraq. The problem was, it just didn’t happen that way. The local militia, hostile to US/British forces, moved in to loot the base after the British pulled out …and the Iraqi Army (whom the base had just been handed) were supposed to defend it. (Quote is from section A of the 08/25 edition of The Washington Post; my access is not shareable by link) > [@](#): > > The withdrawal sparked wide-scale looting at the base and then intense clashes late Thursday between Iraqi army forces guarding the camp and unknown attackers, a military intelligence official said. The volatile situation worsened when the 2nd Battalion of the Iraqi army’s 4th Brigade mutinied and attacked a local military outpost, said the official, who spoke on condition that his name not be used. :smack: :smack: :smack: Yes…the Iraqi Troops…the ones we’ve been spending Billions to train and to do what Bush says. They Mutinied!!! They decided they’d rather fight with the local warlord than defend their democracy. Jay-sus, I haven’t heard stuff like this since I was a kid and the South Vietnamese abandoned their guns and tanks and ran screaming like little girls ahead of the advance of the North Vietnamese regulars. Yes, there’s a corollary there; the one thing in common is the US foreign policy. Still, that was 35 years ago. Have we as a nation learned nothing since then…? Yes, I pit the Iraqi Army; the one that we paid to train and inspire. But I also pit the people who made all this possible. I pit this war, in all of its stupidity. I pit the politicians sending friends and family over to Iraq to die essentially for nothing. I pit the stupidity of these same politicians for taking failed Vietnam strategies and trying to apply them in the 21st century Iraq, all while on my tax-dollars. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/2 "2006-08-25T19:18:50Z")
And we’ve got what? – another two-plus years to go of “Stay the course”? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/3 "2006-08-25T23:18:36Z")
Dude. Nobody else is mentioning it. _Nobody!_ Not one news source. I think the Post pulled this one out of its posterior. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/4 "2006-08-25T23:25:18Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] I think the Post pulled this one out of its posterior. [/QUOTE] Yeah, that, or some dude names **Bosda.** > **[Google News](https://news.google.com/home?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US:en)** > > Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News. [http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-08-25-base-looted\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-08-25-base-looted_x.htm) > **[CNN.com - Base looted after British turn it over to Iraqis - Aug 25, 2006](https://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/25/iraq.main/)** > > Hours after British troops handed over a military base to Iraqi forces, hundreds of Iraqis -- some with their faces covered and wielding guns -- looted it, police and army officials told CNN Friday. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2006, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/5 "2006-08-25T23:27:39Z")
OK. I googled “mutiny” & “iraq”, & only got articles on a US officer who is being court-martialed for not going. I should have tried more. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/6 "2006-08-26T00:42:49Z")
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor] Dude. Nobody else is mentioning it. _Nobody!_ Not one news source. [/quote] Damn that liberal media! ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/7 "2006-08-26T02:27:55Z")
No problem. Sorry, I didn’t mean to be overly curt, I just wanted to make it clear that this incident most certainly did happen. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/8 "2006-08-26T04:07:18Z")
From USA today: [http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-08-25-base-looted\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2006-08-25-base-looted_x.htm) > [@](#): > > “The handover of the Camp Abu Naji was coordinated with the Amarah authorities 24 hours in advance,” said spokesman Maj. Charlie Burbridge. > > “It was understood that the governor was likely to use the camp as a police training camp,” he said in an e-mail Thursday, adding that Iraqi forces had secured the base after the British soldiers left. > > Burbridge said Thursday that British authorities could not comment on early reports of looting “because by that stage the camp was the property of the Maysan authorities and Iraqi Forces were in attendance.” The Houston chronicle: > **[Client Challenge](https://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4142020.html)** > [@](#): > > Camp Abu Naji, 200 miles southeast of Baghdad, had come under almost daily attack when the Britons were in control, an indication of the hostility for foreign troops. Raise your hands whoever heard that before, this is the first time I heard of this. Most of the reports I see are from the area controlled by the US. The worrisome thing is that this are mostly Shiites, the ones that were supposed to be glad we liberated them. Looking around, it seems that this is officially a change of tactics from the part of the British. Nothing wrong with that, Og knows a change of tactics was needed even if the sorry leadership does not want to hear about it. But, I am getting the feeling that the stated reason is not quite right. > [@](#): > > “The Americans believe there is an inflow of IEDs and weapons across the border with Iran,” said Burbridge, referring to improvised explosive devices, in a telephone interview from Basra. “Our first objective is to go and find out if that is the case. If that is true, we’ll be able to disrupt the flow.” He said the second goal was to train Iraqi border guards. The lack of intelligence that did not see the lack of control that came is worrisome IMO, All that is leading me to believe that the Shiites, that are considered to be “allies”, are beginning to seed misinformation. Good luck in the marshes. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/9 "2006-08-26T05:04:23Z")
According to a respectable English newspaper there was no fighting or mutiny, just looting: A British soldier said that as the last men drove away, they saw pick-up trucks being filled with equipment worth tens of thousands of pounds. … The Iraqi and British governments had described the transfer of Camp Smitty on July 30, a base outside the southern city of Samawah, as a key step in handing control of security back to Iraqis. But the looting casts doubt on official insistence that coalition troops are only withdrawing when local authorities are ready to assume their responsibilities. … Muthanna, a sparsely-populated province bordering Saudi Arabia, is considered one of Iraq’s most peaceful. [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/23/wiraq23.xml](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/08/23/wiraq23.xml) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/10 "2006-08-26T05:33:13Z")
No, no, no, **Count Blucher** , one must not draw parallels between Vietnam and Iraq. Must not. Look into my eyes. There are no similarities between Vietnam and Iraq. _None_. Never ever say this again. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/11 "2006-08-26T07:50:23Z")
The latest and greatest verson from the [Washington Post](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/25/AR2006082501315.html) backs away from the mutiny charge, now saying it was a “rumored” mutiny and that the point of contention was Iraqi forces not wanting to be deployed to Baghdad. Per the article: > [@The Washington Post](#): > > Iraqi army Lt. Ali Kareem of the 4th Brigade, 10th Division, said some members of his unit began to mutiny Thursday after learning that they were being deployed to Baghdad the next day to support a security plan in the capital. He said troops in the brigade’s 2nd Battalion – mainly members of Shiite militias such as Sadr’s Mahdi Army and the Badr Brigade – started to fire guns and mortars in protest because they thought the American military was “trying to get rid of them.” The situation was resolved only after the brigade commander said the protesters did not have to deploy to Baghdad ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/12 "2006-08-26T11:47:17Z")
Here’s some bits from the story in today’s WaPo: > [@](#): > > **Looters Ransack Base After British Depart > Failure of Iraqi Soldiers to Prevent Assault Raises Worries About Security Transfers** > > BAGHDAD, Aug. 25 – Armed looters ransacked an abandoned British base in southern Iraq on Friday as Iraqi soldiers guarding the camp stood by and watched, heightening concerns that Iraqi troops are still ill-equipped to take control of security from U.S.-led coalition forces. > > A crowd of as many as 5,000 people, including hundreds armed with AK-47 assault rifles, attacked Camp Abu Naji and hauled away window and door frames, corrugated roofing and metal pipes, despite the presence of a 450-member Iraqi army brigade meant to guard the base. > > “The looters stole everything – even the bricks,” said Ahmed Mohammed Abdul Latief, 20, a student at Maysan University. “They almost leveled the whole base to the ground.” So I guess now it’s “as we stand down, they’ll loot up.” Lotsa progress since April 10, 2003. > [@](#): > > Maj. Charlie Burbridge, a British military spokesman, said the Iraqi army maintained full control of the camp, even during the looting, and had managed to eject the thieves by early evening. Was this before or after they stole the bricks? > [@](#): > > But the inability of the Iraqi soldiers to prevent widespread looting in one of the country’s calmest provinces, as well as the reported mutiny of a local army brigade, left doubts about whether U.S.-led forces will be able to hand over security to the Iraqi government anytime soon. No shit, Sherlock. The article also notes in passing that the Iraqi [Sufis](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism) have declared jihad and are joining the insurgency. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/13 "2006-08-26T12:33:43Z")
OK, I was half wrong.☹ But, I was also half right.🙂 Eventually, I will either become 100% right, or senile. \ ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/14 "2006-08-26T17:17:13Z")
You guys just don’t see the good news in all of this! The entreprenuerial spirit is alive and well in Iraq! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/15 "2006-08-26T20:33:43Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] You guys just don’t see the good news in all of this! The entreprenuerial spirit is alive and well in Iraq! [/QUOTE] Huh. You may have a point there. Just think of the construction boom, what with all the building material that’s now available. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/16 "2006-08-26T23:16:50Z")
_sigh_ Well, we always knew you couldn’t legislate morality. Apparently, you can’t legislate a system of government, either. No matter how bad you want someone else to accept it. Of course, our government still thinks you _can_ legislate morality, so… ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/17 "2006-08-27T00:52:41Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] [Quote=WaPo] Maj. Charlie Burbridge, a British military spokesman, said the Iraqi army maintained full control of the camp, even during the looting, and had managed to eject the thieves by early evening. [/quote] Was this before or after they stole the bricks? [/QUOTE] That’s the funniest thing, in a sick way, I’ve read all day. I swear I remember seeing a movie where a clueless leader, standing in the middle of a riot, shouts out “I’m in complete control!” Give that Major a job in the White House Press Office - he’ll fit right in. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/18 "2006-08-27T00:55:05Z")
[QUOTE=Princhester] No, no, no, **Count Blucher** , one must not draw parallels between Vietnam and Iraq. Must not. Look into my eyes. There are no similarities between Vietnam and Iraq. _None_. Never ever say this again. [/QUOTE] Except for the whole, you know, quagmire thingy. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/19 "2006-08-27T01:08:26Z")
History repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce. ~ Karl Marx ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2006, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211/20 "2006-08-27T01:42:44Z")
Hey, they built schools! Jihadist _madrasa_, but still… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-army-mutiny-south-vietnam-rerun/370211.md?page=2)