# Iraqi Gov't Politic: i.e. Coy Young Maiden approach is Completely Pathetic! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 4, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444 "2003-04-04T13:45:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/1 "2003-04-04T13:45:53Z")
Anyone else notice that the Iraqi Information Minister is behaving like a coy young maiden? Down playing the war to his constituents/peoples? Todays edition of the Gov’t run Baghdad News paper is telling Iraqi Nationals that _they_ are winning the war, beating the Americans, and suffering little damage from the invaders. Now that the American’s have secured Saddam’s airport, local Baghdad citizens are realizing it is all a shame…Their Governement is blatently lying to them to try and rally support for those last few fighters who may rise up and get shot… To me this is completely pathetic. Per another thread the Iraqi Gov’t kicked out Al-Jazeera…Does this strike anyone else as irretrievably stupid? As one of the newspapers what you’d think they would want around, they remove. Either something very bad is about to happen and the Iraqi Gov’t doesn’t want the rest of the Arab world to see it - even though they would anyway - or the Gov’t has been hit so hard that the chain of command has crumbled to people who have completely no idea of what to do? Anyone else think they Iraqi Gov’t is flailing around with little to no control over their war units…? ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/2 "2003-04-04T13:55:21Z")
I saw part of the interview yesterday in CNN, frankly it was just bizarre. He made claims that the prisoners of war taken by the coalition were “brought in by the americans, not real iragis”. That the coalition troops were not just outside Baghdad, that the Iraqi troops were winning every battle. And so on. The CNN analyst made a good point, that he obviously was not talking to anyone outside Iraq, this was on Al-Jazeera, CNN was carrying the feed, but rather to the inner circle or to govt. supporters, to keep them from bailing. Now that the coalition forces are IN Baghdad those inner circle loyalists who stayed behind may no longer have the option to flee, which might have been the intent of the speech. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/3 "2003-04-04T14:17:12Z")
well, if you lived in this timezone you could watch it live on CNN…now that’s a treat we get each and every day. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/4 "2003-04-04T14:26:30Z")
Well, what’s he supposed to say? “We’re toast, folks. Start packing your bags”? I mean, what is there to say, at this point? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/5 "2003-04-04T14:34:01Z")
**Duck** - well if they wanted to go down fighting, maybe they should start by not lying to the people of their own country. I just find it completely ridiculous what they are telling the populace…Iraqis can’t be that naive to believe that crap. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/6 "2003-04-04T14:41:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > Well, what’s he supposed to say? “We’re toast, folks. Start packing your bags”? Really – it’s not much different than Donald Rumsfeld’s insistence that the war has been going according to plan all this time. “We _meant_ to do this! We _wanted_ to stretch our supply lines thin and have the Iraqis snipe at us from the rear! We were _expecting_ car bombs and fake surrenders and other dirty tactics! Really!” Both sides are spinning this war to make themselves look good. To chide Iraq for it is to be amazingly naive. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/7 "2003-04-04T14:48:14Z")
Sorry **rjung** - but there is a major difference between Rummy saying we expected this, that, and the other thing, and the Iraqi Information Minister publishing complete lies about the campaign. Telling people that they are actually winning. And that no Iraqis have been killed. Do you really not saee any difference? ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/8 "2003-04-04T14:52:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Really – it’s not much different than Donald Rumsfeld’s insistence that the war has been going according to plan all this time. “We _meant_ to do this! We _wanted_ to stretch our supply lines thin and have the Iraqis snipe at us from the rear! We were _expecting_ car bombs and fake surrenders and other dirty tactics! Really!” > > Both sides are spinning this war to make themselves look good. To chide Iraq for it is to be amazingly naive. \*\* This is hilarious! To state there is no material difference between Rumsfeld’s press conferences and the utter, verifiably false horseshit coming from Iraq’s Minister of Defense–frankly, it’s incredible. I expect any day now to hear the Minister, with a flaming missile in his ass, deny the fact that there’s a flaming missile in his ass. With that same incredulous look on his face, as if the very question were ridiculous. There will be a gaping hole in the wall behind him through which we can see a U.S. Marine directing traffic as the Minister further denies the presence of Coalition forces in Baghdad. And there will still be people who say it’s no different, really, than the information Rumsfeld provides. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/9 "2003-04-04T14:52:08Z")
I get this sense that in a few days, there’s going to be a broadcast from the Information Minister in which he continues to claim that Iraq is winning the war…during which coalition soldiers storm into the picture. Just a question–are Iraqi TV broadcasts being seen anywhere outside of Baghdad? It’s hard to believe that the Information Minister expects his words to be taken seriously in, say, Umm Qasr or Basra. ---
**Author:** ![Duke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/10 "2003-04-04T14:53:30Z")
GD simulpost! ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/11 "2003-04-04T14:57:37Z")
How interesting, rjung. Are you privy to the Pentagon’s actual war plan, including discussions of various contingencies and possibilities, that you know for certain that Rumsfeld is lying? Or do you just assume Rumsfeld is lying because you hate Bush? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/12 "2003-04-04T14:58:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duke \* > **I get this sense that in a few days, there’s going to be a broadcast from the Information Minister in which he continues to claim that Iraq is winning the war…during which coalition soldiers storm into the picture.** And as they’re dragging him off in shackles, he’s yelling “Ha HAH! They fell into our trap!” Seriously though, I suspect that every government on earth will come out with as much propaganda lies/spin as it can get away with. The Iraqi government, never having had to deal with any transparency or investigative journalism, will just say what it wants. In that way, there is some kind of comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/13 "2003-04-04T15:05:00Z")
Every side has its own spin, that’s true. But the Iraqi nonsense is something beyond that. IMO, it’s the natural mindset cultivated by the ruling power in a dictatorship. They expect their word to be believed because, well, they said so. Period. It starts to become immaterial whether something is factual or not. It’s the truth because they said it’s the truth, and if you disagree, they have ways of dealing with you. Want to know who won the first Gulf War? Just ask them, they’ll tell you…it just becomes laughable when they’re in a position where their power is disintegrating around them and they can’t stop their bullshit. They just can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/14 "2003-04-04T15:21:31Z")
I agree **Bob** - it just baffles the mind. Even that facist punk Franko had more sense than the Iraqi _whatever-you-call-it_! To me it is making them look rather foolish, but I doubt it will be going on much longer… ---
**Author:** ![bayonet1976](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@bayonet1976](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bayonet1976)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/15 "2003-04-04T17:48:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Phlosphr \* > \*\*I agree **Bob** - it just baffles the mind. Even that facist punk Franko had more sense than the Iraqi _whatever-you-call-it_! > \*\* Say what you will about Franco, he died of old age and still in power, which, if you’re a dictator, is pretty much everything you could ask for. ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/16 "2003-04-04T19:07:32Z")
**Rjung** there are definitely some amazingly naïve posters in this thread, but they aren’t the ones chiding Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/17 "2003-04-04T19:55:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cmkeller \* > Are you privy to the Pentagon’s actual war plan, including discussions of various contingencies and possibilities, that you know for certain that Rumsfeld is lying? > > Or do you just assume Rumsfeld is lying because you hate Bush? Nah, I’m just going off what the Pentagon has been tossing around before the shooting started: > [@](#): > > “I think the effects that we are trying to create is to make it so apparent and so overwhelming at the very outset of potential military operations that the adversary quickly realizes that there is no real alternative here other than to fight and die or to give up.” > [Col. Gary L. Crowder, chief, Strategy, Concepts and Doctrine, ACC (3/19/2003)](http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Mar2003/t03202003_t0319effects.html) > [@](#): > > This co-called “Rapid Dominance” battle plan is based a concept formulated in a report drawn up by the Pentagon-run National Defense University in 1996—that is, under the Clinton administration and well before events of September 11, 2001. The concept is dubbed “Shock and Awe” because it seeks the psychological overwhelming of the enemy, and, by extension, the intimidation of the world’s population. > > Speaking to CBS news, one of the report’s authors, Harlan Ullman, drew a direct parallel to Hiroshima. Within two to five days, the Iraqi people would be “physically, emotionally and psychologically exhausted,” he stated. He spoke of having “this simultaneous effect, rather like the nuclear weapons at Hiroshima, not taking days or weeks but in minutes.” > [US plans “shock and awe” blitzkrieg in Iraq](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/jan2003/war-j30.shtml) > [@](#): > > Any war with Iraq would be swift and not require a full US mobilisation, says US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. > \ > “It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months,” he said, speaking at the American air base at Aviano, in northern Italy. > [Rumsfeld foresees swift Iraq war](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2738089.stm) > [@](#): > > Senior Bush administration officials have concluded that the United States will quickly win a war against Iraq, based on superior American technology and a sharp deterioration of Saddam Hussein’s armed forces since the 1991 Persian Gulf conflict. > > ``` > Officials also believe a significant number of Saddam's army commanders and units will either refuse to fight or will assist allied troops in toppling the Baghdad regime. > > Senior Pentagon policy-makers have come to that conclusion in recent weeks, and some officials are beginning to state it publicly. > > "I don't think it would be that tough a fight," Vice President Richard B. Cheney said on NBC's "Meet the Press." "That is, I don't think there's any question that we would prevail and we would achieve our objective." > > ``` > > [War in Iraq seen as quick win](http://www.washtimes.com/national/20020918-16942061.htm) Unconventional tactics? Fake surrenders? Supply-line sniping? Car bombs? Nah, don’t sweat it, we’ll just “shock and awe” them on the first day, and the Iraqi army will fold like a house of cards. Uh-huh. Yeah, quick-n-easy. _Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight._ ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/18 "2003-04-04T20:04:12Z")
LOL, ok dude. Believe what you want. ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2003, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/19 "2003-04-04T20:24:32Z")
> [@](#): > > _from Duke_\*\* > Just a question–are Iraqi TV broadcasts being seen anywhere outside of Baghdad? It’s hard to believe that the Information Minister expects his words to be taken seriously in, say, Umm Qasr or Basra.\*\* IraqiTV can be seen [anywhere with an internet connection](http://www.webcamsue.demon.nl/). (Actually I have no idea if Iraqi’s outside of Baghdad can get that channel, though I assume they can if they have a satellite at least) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2003, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444/20 "2003-04-05T00:00:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Unconventional tactics? Fake surrenders? Supply-line sniping? Car bombs? Nah, don’t sweat it, we’ll just “shock and awe” them on the first day, and the Iraqi army will fold like a house of cards. Uh-huh. Yeah, quick-n-easy. _Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight._ \*\* Providing examples of what was expressed prior to the start of the war is not a terribly good way to show how “the Pentagon” is lying about the ongoing military campaign in the manner that the Iraqi minister is. Just admit it. You overstated your point. You can be against the war and still recognize that the Minister of Information is virtually incapable of opening his mouth without letting fly another bald-faced lie, even when verifiable facts contradict him. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-govt-politic-i-e-coy-young-maiden-approach-is-completely-pathetic/166444.md?page=2)