# Iraqi resistance gives a hummus about WMD **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 2, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953 "2004-04-02T21:12:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/41 "2004-04-03T12:53:10Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > One of the points I’m trying to make is that there is a major disconnect between perception of US and Iraqi public about the whole affair. Our quibbles about UN approval and WMD mean nothing to Iraqis, especially those that are dead set against us. How we feel doesn’t translate into Iraq situation at all, so it is naive for you to derive any vindication for your position from what Iraqis resistance is doing. How many times can I say this is a straw man? It is a STUPID straw man. What the Iraqi resistance might do IF circumstances were different is totally and absolutely irrelevant and I have made the argument several times and you keep ignoring it. Yours is a really stupid argument. A man may react the same way if his car is taken by a thief or repossessed by the lender but I support him against the thief and not against the repossessor. The fact that his reaction may be the same is completely and utterly irrelevant to the fact that one action is legal and the other illegal. Please stop making stupid arguments… although it seems that’s all you got. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/42 "2004-04-03T12:56:55Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > My quarrel is with those who say, “Yeah, everybody supports Saddam removal, but it doesn’t change anything because UN fidn’t approve, WMD were not found and Bush is still an idiot.” Ah. I see. Yep. That _is_ a stupid question. I fail to see why my honest answer to your question is “in the way.” You’re the one setting up conditions that are duplicitous. I just gave a straight answer. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/43 "2004-04-03T13:32:35Z")
> [@Jack Batty](#): > > Ah. I see. Yep. That _is_ a stupid question. It’s not a question, it’s an assertion. Furthermore, it is an assertion which the immense majority of the people who opposed the war are not making so it is also a straw man. But I suppose this is what those who would defend Bush at any cost are reduced to since they have nothing else to grab. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/44 "2004-04-03T14:34:46Z")
[QUOTE=New Iskander] The point is it were US soldiers marooned in the desert and Bush adm. was responsible for them, while other countries could continue to play diplomacy games with impunity. Of course there were two ways out: invade or leave. The order could’ve been given to go home, WH could issue a statement, “Fuck UN and all its fucking resolutions, _next time we get hit we just nuke something_”, INS could be set to arrest and deport all UN personnel out of the country in 24 hours… _I’d support that too_.QUOTE] Let´s see, are you saying that it would be fine by you to nuke Iraq as a response to 9/11? Your reality check has bounced. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/45 "2004-04-03T14:51:24Z")
New Iskander, it is really tiring to follow your posts and see you ignoring what is said and building stupid straw men which you cannot even demolish and so you beat around the Bush. Your OP says: > [@New Iskander](#): > > quite a few people in the West seem to justify Iraqis resistance based on their own disagreement with or dislike of, Bush, in general and his tactics on Iraq in particular. Those people don’t seem to understand that US or UN invasion would meet the same response in Iraq, whether it was justified exactly as they wished or not. You say I justify Iraqi resistance to be legitimate because I consider the invasion was illegitimate. This is correct. And then you go on to say the resistance would have been the same had the invasion been legitimate. So what? WTF has this to do with anything? Even if it were true (and I do not accept it as true), it does not in any way invalidate my position. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/46 "2004-04-03T14:54:47Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > The point is it were US soldiers marooned in the desert and Bush adm. was responsible for them, while other countries could continue to play diplomacy games with impunity. Of course there were two ways out: invade or leave. The order could’ve been given to go home, WH could issue a statement, “Fuck UN and all its fucking resolutions, next time we get hit we just nuke something”. Wel, it’s nice of you to confirm that you have no comprehension skills at all. Go back and re-read my post. S-l-o-w-l-y. Move your lips if that helps. My point was Bush “marooned” the soldiers in the desert before making even a half-assed attempt at diplomacy. He _was_ responsible for them, and he irresponibly put them in harms way because he was unwilling to persue a diplomatic solution. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/47 "2004-04-03T15:49:40Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > You say I justify Iraqi resistance to be legitimate because I consider the invasion was illegitimate. This is correct. And then you go on to say the resistance would have been the same had the invasion been legitimate. So what? WTF has this to do with anything? Even if it were true (and I do not accept it as true), it does not in any way invalidate my position. I was fed-up with reading endless equivocations like this one of yours from above: > [@](#): > > If the entire world community represented by the UN had decided to endorse the invasion then maybe the resistance would be the same but I would not be defending them as i am now because right now they are fighting an unjust occupation which, in my eyes, gives them legitimacy. to the point that I couldn’t contain it any longer. There was no “proper” way to invade Iraq and remove Saddam, will you get it through your head? It was whether do or not. Your quibbles don’t mean shit, because about the same number of people would die. I want US to prevail, but I have equal respect for US soldiers and Iraqi resistance, for they both are fighting real war for real stakes. For you, they are just a bunch of wooden pawns you can paint one color or another, depending which way your farts flow. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/48 "2004-04-03T16:01:24Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Well, that unsubstantiated bit about the Iraqi resistance fighting for something “more horrible than anything they ever dreamed of” is either sheer hubris on your part, or whining in disguise. What is it you think they’re fighting for? I substantiated that in my first answer to Sailor, above. Iraq resistance is fighting to restore the way of life those peopple that burn Bush in effigies have no experience and no idea about; no idea how horrible it is. They heard that Saddam was bad but they can’t comprehend the alternate reality where their lives wouldn’t be worth a scrap of used toilet paper from the moment they _discussed_ an idea of mocking the ruler. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/49 "2004-04-03T16:33:23Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Iraq resistance is fighting to restore the way of life those peopple that burn Bush in effigies have no experience and no idea about; no idea how horrible it is. Yeah. They really **don’t** know how much life under Bush sucks. But it looks like they’re starting to find out. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/50 "2004-04-03T17:28:49Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > There was no “proper” way to invade Iraq and remove Saddam, will you get it through your head? It was whether do or not. Well, again you prove how much of an idiot you are. Do you really beleive this? Here are some finer points:[ul]\*Attempt diplomacy before sending force to the region. \*Exhaust all avenues before going it alone. \*Be sure your reasons are true and aim righteous before committing American blood. \*Be forthright in the reasons for action. \*Confirm the intelligence sources. \*Don’t allow personal agendas cloud judgement. \*Confirm commitment of bordering countries so 1/3 of your force isn’t floating in the Med when it’s time to act. \*Commit a sufficient number of troops for the task. \*Have a plan in place for a transition. \*Be prepared for a looming humanitarian crisis when the shooting stops. \*Plan on medical resources for the civilian population. [/ul]Hows that for just a start? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/51 "2004-04-03T17:31:41Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Your quibbles don’t mean shit, because about the same number of people would die. So taking possesion of a car is the same thing whether you have a legal right to it or not? The only thing that counts is that the present owner will resist? Everything else is just quibbles? > [@](#): > > I have equal respect for US soldiers and Iraqi resistance, for they both are fighting real war for real stakes. In this we agree. I have said the same thing many times. Both American soldiers and Iraqi insurgents are fighting for their ideals and both are equally respectable. Of course, had the USA waited a bit and gone along with the rest of the world, the war may have been averted and the situation would have been resolved in a satisfactory manner for all parties concerned without sheding blood. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/52 "2004-04-03T18:25:11Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > the situation would have been resolved in a satisfactory manner for all parties concerned without sheding blood. _Ideally_. But I think we can all agree that Saddam was a supreme butthead. It may have ended in use of force, but our standing in the world would have not been as damaged. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/53 "2004-04-03T19:01:56Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > _Ideally_. But I think we can all agree that Saddam was a supreme butthead. It may have ended in use of force, but our standing in the world would have not been as damaged. Well, yes, we never know. But the USA was saying “that’s my car and I am taking it by force and I am not waiting for a court to rule”. Well, even if it _is_ your car you can’t do that but when you take it and it turns out you were mistaken and it wasn’t your car after all, then you look like a bully and an idiot who has caused a big fight in the neighborhood and soured life for everybody and on top of this you were wrong. That is the position of the USA in the world right now. On top of that the USA refuses to transfer any authority to the UN so, in spite of having made the mess and in spite of being wrong about the reasons, they continue to occupy Iraq for their own benefit. If they are acting in such good faith, now that Saddam is gone and there are no WMD, why don’t the transfer the authority to the UN? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/54 "2004-04-03T20:53:47Z")
> [@](#): > > The problem is that the USA wants to rule Iraq with a puppet government and the USA wants to keep bases in Iraq. You have as much evidence for that assertion as the OP has for his assertions. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/55 "2004-04-03T21:22:52Z")
Oh? Well, ask yourself this question, **SPOOFE**. If the best evidence available should indicate that an Iraqi election would install an Islamic fundie state similar to Iran, do you really…_really_…believe that Bremer, Chalabi, and Co. will permit such a thing to go forward? If you do, I have an acquaintance from Nigeria you might like to get in touch with. He’s in the banking business there, you see, and … ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/56 "2004-04-03T21:30:52Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > Well, again you prove how much of an idiot you are. Do you really beleive this? Here are some finer points:[ul]\*Attempt diplomacy before sending force to the region. > \*Exhaust all avenues before going it alone. > \*Be sure your reasons are true and aim righteous before committing American blood. > \*Be forthright in the reasons for action. > \*Confirm the intelligence sources. > \*Don’t allow personal agendas cloud judgement. > \*Confirm commitment of bordering countries so 1/3 of your force isn’t floating in the Med when it’s time to act. > \*Commit a sufficient number of troops for the task. > \*Have a plan in place for a transition. > \*Be prepared for a looming humanitarian crisis when the shooting stops. > \*Plan on medical resources for the civilian population. > [/ul]Hows that for just a start? Terrific. Who do you mark for Veep? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/57 "2004-04-03T21:59:22Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > You have as much evidence for that assertion as the OP has for his assertions. The actions of the USA seem pretty clear evidence. Or why doésn’t the USA just offer to hand over control to the UN? Can you give me any other reason? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/58 "2004-04-03T22:54:07Z")
> [@](#): > > If the best evidence available should indicate that an Iraqi election would install an Islamic fundie state similar to Iran, do you really…really…believe that Bremer, Chalabi, and Co. will permit such a thing to go forward? Wait, wait, wait, Lucy… I thought Sailor was criticizing the OP for lack of evidence. Where did all this “believe” stuff come into it? ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/59 "2004-04-03T22:55:14Z")
> [@](#): > > The actions of the USA seem pretty clear evidence. Or why doésn’t the USA just offer to hand over control to the UN? Can you give me any other reason? Because the UN is an utterly ineffectual governing body that can’t even enforce its own sanctions, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2004, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953/60 "2004-04-03T23:01:15Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > Because the UN is an utterly ineffectual governing body that can’t even enforce its own sanctions, maybe? I see. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-resistance-gives-a-hummus-about-wmd/237953.md?page=4)