# Iraqi woman claims to be raped **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 22, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378 "2004-07-22T17:47:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/1 "2004-07-22T17:47:41Z")
I’ve been on some Islamic forums as of late, and I’ve been trying to disprove this ridiculous claim that Coalition troops have raped Iraqi women. Here is an article on the ‘rape’ Iraqi Woman Tells Of Abu Ghraib Rape Ordeal Jul 22, 2004 Source: [IslamOnline.net](http://IslamOnline.net) The rape ordeal she suffered at the hands of US soldiers, both males and females, in the notorious Abu Gharib prison will continue to haunt Nadia for the rest of her life. Though freed now, she is “imprisoned” in painful memories that left her psychologically and physically scarred, paying the price of the brutality and sadism of her American jailers. The Iraqi abuse scandal exploded onto the world stage on April 29 after the CBS news network published several shocking photos of Iraqi detainees tortured and sexually abused by US soldiers. In a damning report presented to the administration in February, before the outbreak of the scandal, US Major General Antonio Taguba found numerous “sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses” at the prison complex. [http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre\_inter…list=/home.php&](http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=11435&list=/home.php&) The fact that if any rape happened then the Western Media would be going nuts, wouldn’t this have been known months ago if it were pretty much true? Wouldn’t there be journalists lined up to want to know her ordeal to be the first to get the knowledge of the account? ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/2 "2004-07-22T18:23:04Z")
While I don’t know if “Nadia” is telling the truth or not I can tell you that Rumsfeld has stated the worst is yet to come with regards to reports of abuses at the Abu Ghraib and Sen. Graham of South Carolina mentioned rape and murder. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/3 "2004-07-22T18:27:12Z")
One thing that we know about the unreleased abuse photos is that they _undisputably_ document rape. Maybe this woman’s story is true, maybe it’s false, maybe it’s partially true and partially false. It’s certainly much worse than anything we’ve previously heard about – but then we’ve been told by people in authority that there are things that are much worse than anything we’ve heard about. I would tend to disbelieve that U.S. soldiers would participate in a gang-rape in a military facility, just going on intuition. I don’t want to believe such a thing is possible. On the other hand, recording humiliation and then sending someone back into the general population is alleged to be the rationale for the abuses in the first place – so the woman’s story is consistent on that point. I _hope_ that someone is exploiting what is known to have happened and inventing something similar but much, much worse, but really, we’re not in a position to “disprove” the claim. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/4 "2004-07-22T18:28:20Z")
Rummy said “the worst is yet to come”? I must have missed that. When is it coming? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/5 "2004-07-22T18:32:21Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > One thing that we know about the unreleased abuse photos is that they _undisputably_ document rape. > > Maybe this woman’s story is true, maybe it’s false, maybe it’s partially true and partially false. > > It’s certainly much worse than anything we’ve previously heard about – but then we’ve been told by people in authority that there are things that are much worse than anything we’ve heard about. > > I would tend to disbelieve that U.S. soldiers would participate in a gang-rape in a military facility, just going on intuition. I don’t want to believe such a thing is possible. > > On the other hand, recording humiliation and then sending someone back into the general population is alleged to be the rationale for the abuses in the first place – so the woman’s story is consistent on that point. > > I _hope_ that someone is exploiting what is known to have happened and inventing something similar but much, much worse, but really, we’re not in a position to “disprove” the claim. I don’t believe it to be true just for the general fact that if they did then the Coalition troops would recieve much more violence from the local population, I remember a story about the creation if Israel and the palestinians objecting, and how the Israelis went into a town and were accused of raping all the women, something which turned out to be false, but the repercussions are still felt today as it fulled their anger towards what the Israelis did in the territories. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/6 "2004-07-22T18:34:10Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Rummy said “the worst is yet to come”? I must have missed that. When is it coming? Most likely after the people involved have been indicted. (Is that the right term in UMCJ-ese?) It takes a while to build a serious felony case and the evidence will probably be sealed until they’re done. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/7 "2004-07-22T18:40:19Z")
> [@Ryan Liam](#): > > I don’t believe it to be true \<_snip_\> Please clarify this. Do you not believe “Nadia’s” story to be true or do you not believe reports of Coalition forces raping prisoners to be true? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/8 "2004-07-22T18:40:52Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Most likely after the people involved have been indicted. Or elected. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/9 "2004-07-22T18:42:52Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > Please clarify this. Do you not believe “Nadia’s” story to be true or do you not believe reports of Coalition forces raping prisoners to be true? Oh I know Male prisoners have been abused, maybe raped, but the women being raped by Coalition troops seems to be false and just reported as a way to incite more violence. ---
**Author:** ![TitoBenito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2acd7d/32.png) [@TitoBenito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TitoBenito)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/10 "2004-07-22T18:46:55Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > “ **I tried in vain to convince the impeded interpreter** I was a guest, but I lost consciousness to find myself later in a dingy dark cell all by myself,” Nadia recalled. > … > “A thrill of fear ran through me when I saw US soldiers laughing hysterically with a female solider telling me **mockingly in an Arabic accent ‘I never heard about female arms dealer in Iraq’," \*\* Nadia said. > … > "One month later, a soldier showed up and told me in** broken Arabic \*\* to take a shower. And before finishing my bath, he kicked the door open. I slapped him but he raped me like animals and called two of his colleagues, who forced me to have sex with them for up to 10 times,” added Nadia. > … > "Reluctant as I was, she fired four shots close to my head and threatened to kill me if I resist. Then, four soldiers raped me sadistically and I lost conscience. Later, she forced me to watch a clip of my raping, **saying bluntly: ‘Your were born to give us pleasure’."** If She needed to explain herself to a translator how does she know the exact sentence the soldiers are mocking her with in an arab accent. Did she learn English in the jail cell. Why do they talk to her in broken Arabic when she clearly knows English. So she doen’t understand english, then she does, then she doesn’t, then she does again, Sounds fishy. Could happen yes, but I’m not buying this particular piece of propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/11 "2004-07-22T18:56:21Z")
> [@TitoBenito](#): > > If She needed to explain herself to a translator how does she know the exact sentence the soldiers are mocking her with in an arab accent. Did she learn English in the jail cell. Why do they talk to her in broken Arabic when she clearly knows English. So she doen’t understand english, then she does, then she doesn’t, then she does again, Sounds fishy. Could happen yes, but I’m not buying this particular piece of propaganda. Yeah, there are a few things about the narrative that give me pause. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/12 "2004-07-22T19:13:27Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I don’t believe it to be true just for the general fact that if they did then the Coalition troops would recieve much more violence from the local population, I remember a story about the creation if Israel and the palestinians objecting, and how the Israelis went into a town and were accused of raping all the women, something which turned out to be false, but the repercussions are still felt today as it fulled their anger towards what the Israelis did in the territories. Not a good argument. The truth of this story is irrelevant to the question of how much violence the local population is directing at the occupying troops. The relevant issue is whether the local population _believes_ that stuff like this is happening. Whether it actually is happening isn’t at all germane. Since it seems likely that, whether or not this story is true, Iraqis are willing to believe most any stories concerning atrocities they hear, I submit that your conclusion here is completely unfounded. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/13 "2004-07-22T19:28:35Z")
It wasn’t a conclusion, but more of a what could be hypothesis than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/14 "2004-07-22T19:28:37Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Oh I know Male prisoners have been abused, maybe raped, but the women being raped by Coalition troops seems to be false and just reported as a way to incite more violence. From the Taguba report: > [@](#): > > The intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts: […] > > A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee At least one instance has come to light, anyway. We don’t know if the sex was consensual or coercive, but under the circumstances I wouldn’t want to argue for “consensual,” without having some strong evidence. At least one other female detainee who is pictured in some of the unreleased photos claimed to have been raped, and claimed that soldiers were raping other women. I don’t find it _too_ much of a stretch of the imagination to suppose that someone who is known to have abused their authority over a female captive by stripping her and forcing her to pose provocatively might also commit rape. Why do you think it’s unlikely that sexual abuse of men is plausible but that reports of raped women are probably false? Because the perpetrators must have gentlemanly deference for women? What? The thing is we’re not really going to know much more until the Pentagon releases the results of its various investigations, and I wouldn’t count on that until after November. Don’t get me wrong – if I had to guess, I’d guess that the story is either a fabrication or an extreme exaggeration. But based on the information we have, we simply can’t disprove it. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/15 "2004-07-22T19:34:05Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’ve been on some Islamic forums as of late, and I’ve been trying to disprove this ridiculous claim that Coalition troops have raped Iraqi women. Why would you consider it “ridiculous” in the face of all the other proven torture that went on at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere? I certainly would have called the abuses that have been proven so far “ridiculous” until I saw the photos. Now, I would believe anything was possible. If you spend a lot of time and energy to “disprove” rape allegations, you’re going to look awfully silly if (when, I’d think) it’s proven to be true. We have reports of teenage boys (I’d call them children) being raped by Iraqi men in Abu Ghraib in front of their mothers. We have reports of teenage boys, children again, being tortured in front of their fathers to get the fathers to talk. No, I’d believe that women were also treated badly, and even raped. It happens in American prisons all the time. Soldiers are arrested and convicted for rape in peacetime deployment. In a war zone? In the chaotic atmosphere of Abu Ghraib? Oh yeah, I wouldn’t be too insistant that it didn’t happen. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Here is an article on the ‘rape’ > > Iraqi Woman Tells Of Abu Ghraib Rape Ordeal > … > > In a damning report presented to the administration in February, before the outbreak of the scandal, US Major General Antonio Taguba found numerous “sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses” at the prison complex. > > [http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre\_inter…list=/home.php&](http://www.jihadunspun.com/intheatre_internal.php?article=11435&list=/home.php&) Here’s the actual Taguba Report in case you want to read it: [http://www.agonist.org/annex/taguba.htm](http://www.agonist.org/annex/taguba.htm) But it only scratches the surface, by Donald Rumsfeld’s own admittance. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > The fact that if any rape happened then the Western Media would be going nuts, wouldn’t this have been known months ago if it were pretty much true? Wouldn’t there be journalists lined up to want to know her ordeal to be the first to get the knowledge of the account? _smile_ Sit down my child. The “Western” media are way behind what’s really going on. The kindest thing that can be said is that they’re waiting for investigations to be completed. This article on MSNBC, from Newsweek, mentions it. > [@](#): > > [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5412316/site/newsweek/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5412316/site/newsweek/) > The details are sickening. Noor, a detainee whose full name is being withheld by NEWSWEEK, was forced to expose her breasts and genitalia and is shown in the MPs’ pictures giving a forced smile for Graner, who sources believe was the photographer. Subsequently a letter signed by a woman named Noor circulated widely in Baghdad saying she had been raped and impregnated by American soldiers, and begging the resistance to “please kill all of us.” ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/16 "2004-07-22T19:34:03Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > From the Taguba report:At least one instance has come to light, anyway. We don’t know if the sex was consensual or coercive, but under the circumstances I wouldn’t want to argue for “consensual,” without having some strong evidence. > > At least one other female detainee who is pictured in some of the unreleased photos claimed to have been raped, and claimed that soldiers were raping other women. I don’t find it _too_ much of a stretch of the imagination to suppose that someone who is known to have abused their authority over a female captive by stripping her and forcing her to pose provocatively might also commit rape. > > Why do you think it’s unlikely that sexual abuse of men is plausible but that reports of raped women are probably false? Because the perpetrators must have gentlemanly deference for women? What? > > The thing is we’re not really going to know much more until the Pentagon releases the results of its various investigations, and I wouldn’t count on that until after November. > > Don’t get me wrong – if I had to guess, I’d guess that the story is either a fabrication or an extreme exaggeration. But based on the information we have, we simply can’t disprove it. No of course not (on the women issue) but I believe that more plausable because I’ve seen pictures (although blurred, but nonetheless convincing) and the Western Media go nuts about it, and hey, if the women raped were true, why would not of this had been shown as well, why do they get preferential treatment from men, they were abused as well? Shouldn’t the world know this scandal too? But then if it was true, people, quite literally would be up in arms at this. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/17 "2004-07-22T20:32:03Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I believe that more plausable because I’ve seen pictures […] if the women raped were true, why would not of this had been shown as well, why do they get preferential treatment from men, they were abused as well? Because, for whatever reason, people (Americans in particular) are _much_ more sensitive about female nudity than male nudity. There’s very little chance that CBS would have ever _considered_ publishing photos of women being sexually humiliated, even in a censored form. We’d been told by authorities that such photos exist, and that’s all we’re gonna get. Remember all that furor over a woman who exposed a bit of breast (with the nipple and aureole covered) by _design_ a short time before the abuse photos were released? Especially given the context of forced sexual humiliation, there’s no amount of spot-censorship that would make it possible to broadcast or print photos of female detainees. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/18 "2004-07-22T20:40:16Z")
[Here.](http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/20802.htm) > [@](#): > > The shocking photos and videos, provided on computer disks by Pentagon officials, showed attack dogs snarling at cowering prisoners, Iraqi women forced to expose their breasts, and naked prisoners tied together on the floor, senators revealed as they emerged from the heavily guarded conference room. > > “It was significantly worse than I had anticipated,” said Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Ore). “Take the worst case and multiply it over several times.” > > “I don’t know how these people got into our Army,” said Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R-Colo.), who reported seeing “several pictures of Iraqi women who were disrobed or putting their shirts up.” ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/19 "2004-07-22T21:01:05Z")
While I don’t doubt for a second that we haven’t seen nor heard the worst in the Abu Gharib prison scandal, I’m very suspicious of Nadia’s claims – it sounds too pat and convenient for me, like someone took a “Top ten prison atrocities” claims and wove them into a narrative. > [@](#): > > She went on: “She gave me a cup of water and no sooner had I started sipping it than I went into a deep trance to find myself later naked and raped.” WTF? If the guards really wanted to rape and humiliate her, why bother with the James Bond “slip 'em a drugged drink” routine? To steal from **elucidator,** I hope this isn’t true. Because it sounds stupid as sin. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378/20 "2004-07-22T21:06:57Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I’ve been on some Islamic forums as of late, and I’ve been trying to disprove this ridiculous claim that Coalition troops have raped Iraqi women. I’ve heard ridiculous claims that there are actually American troops who have raped Americans, too, or that there are American troops who have actually raped other American troops in the past! Can you imagine that anyone could believe something so ridiculous? As soon as I get around to disproving the ridiculous claims that American troops have committed rape against other Americans, I’ll move right on over and help you disprove that some of them may have raped people of other nationalities. [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4506979/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4506979/) [http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9511/japan\_rape/](http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9511/japan_rape/) [http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/navy/tailhook/](http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/navy/tailhook/) etc etc The military is a reflection of the rest of society. The demographics may be a bit different, but the military has plenty of rapists just like the rest of society. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqi-woman-claims-to-be-raped/256378.md?page=2)