# Iraqis don't like the Bushes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 21, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712 "2016-02-21T17:35:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/1 "2016-02-21T17:35:34Z")
From time to time, some advance the peculiar claim that Iraqis are grateful to George W. Bush for invading their country. [Let’s disabuse them of that ignorance.](http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/iraqis-celebrate-as-threat-of-third-bush-presidency-is-over) > [@](#): > > Thousands of Iraqis poured out into the streets to celebrate in the early hours of Sunday morning, as the threat of a third Bush Presidency was declared over at last… > > Moments after the first evidence of Bush’s dismal finish began trickling in, however, Iraqis roared with glee as spontaneous festivities erupted across the country. > > _ **Observers were stunned to see Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds dancing together in the streets, putting aside their enmity to celebrate an outcome that they never dreamed possible.** _ > > “You must understand, we Iraqis have been living with the fear of a third Bush Presidency for months now,” Sabah al-Alousi, a Baghdad shoemaker, said. “Now we can begin to think about a future, for ourselves and our families.” > > Asked about the possibility of a Trump Presidency, he waved off the question. “This is the greatest day for my country,” he said. “I will let nothing spoil this day.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/2 "2016-02-21T17:40:49Z")
The author is a humor writer for _The New Yorker_ From the linked page > [@](#): > > Get news satire from The Borowitz Report delivered to your inbox. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/3 "2016-02-21T18:06:16Z")
:smack: :smack: :smack: Gullible **septimus** was caught up again? :o :o :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Octarine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/22d042/32.png) [@Octarine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octarine)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/4 "2016-02-21T19:23:58Z")
Hey, if you’re going to get hoodwinked, The Borowitz Report is grade-A stuff to get hoodwinked by. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/5 "2016-02-21T20:03:54Z")
So times the line between truth and satire is just too fine… ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/6 "2016-02-21T21:14:11Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > So times the line between truth and satire is just too fine… And sometimes [the satire becomes the truth.](http://www.theonion.com/article/bush-our-long-national-nightmare-of-peace-and-pros-464) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/7 "2016-02-21T21:23:55Z")
How long before Trump claims he saw thousands of Iraqis celebrating Jeb’s withdrawal? ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/8 "2016-02-21T23:34:24Z")
After reading only the OP I knew that had to be a joke article. I seriously doubt the general population of Iraqis had any clue that Bush’s brother was even running. I doubt they have much concept of what a Western, democratic nation’s political party nomination process even is, let alone that it would outweigh Islamic sectarian lines… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/9 "2016-02-21T23:40:13Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Sometimes the line between truth and satire is just too fine… Well, one thing I know is that I work with Iraqis on a regular basis, and all of them view the invasion of Iraq as the ruination of their country. When you ask them anything about their culture and society, they always preface their answers by sighing, and then saying something like, “Do you mean before or after the invasion? Because after the invasion, everything just went to hell. . .” Occasionally they ask me if I can explain just what the hell the Bush administration thought is was doing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/10 "2016-02-22T01:09:12Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > After reading only the OP I knew that had to be a joke article. I seriously doubt the general population of Iraqis had any clue that Bush’s brother was even running. I doubt they have much concept of what a Western, democratic nation’s political party nomination process even is, let alone that it would outweigh Islamic sectarian lines… :roll eyes: As soon as I saw “Kurds”, I knew something was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/11 "2016-02-22T02:19:09Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > Occasionally they ask me if I can explain just what the hell the Bush administration thought is was doing. Making an example out of Saddam and Iraq to the Islamic Middle Eastern world in the wake of 9/11. Exporting that level of savage brutal civilian terrorism to the West will get _any of you_ utterly destroyed. And there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it. Why did Dillinger rob banks? That’s where the money is… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/12 "2016-02-22T06:31:18Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I work with Iraqis on a regular basis, and all of them view the invasion of Iraq as the ruination of their country. … sighing, and then saying "Do you mean before or after the invasion? Because after the invasion, everything just went to hell. [GD territory ahead:] So these people preferred living under Saddam’s dictatorship? I would, too, I suppose–because back then you at least had basic stability and a steady job, which is better than the chaos and bombs in the marketplaces of today’s Iraq. But do they really take any pride in Saddam? > [@](#): > > …what the hell the Bush administration thought it was doing Can you ask your Iraqi friends if they see the logical conclusion of this question? They are admitting that their country needed Sadam in power…because Iraqis are incapable of governing themselves. They need a dictator telling them what to do (and proudly killing anybody who disagrees). Bush invaded, --and gave the Iraqi people the chance, for the first time in their lives- to vote. They chose their own leaders, their own future… and their own disaster. Things certainly went to hell…but do your friends not realize that it isn’t all America’s fault? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/13 "2016-02-22T12:55:03Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > [GD territory ahead:] Can you ask your Iraqi friends if they see the logical conclusion of this question? . . . Things certainly went to hell…but do your friends not realize that it isn’t all America’s fault? I could, but honestly, I’d rather not even get into it–it would probably end up in an hour-long, detailed listing, when we’ve got other things to do. I think their general view is that so many things were done wrong by the occupying forces from the start that it never could have worked right, and that, in any case, they never actually had the good of the Iraqi people as their goal. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/14 "2016-02-22T13:00:42Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Bush invaded, --and gave the Iraqi people the chance, for the first time in their lives- to vote. They chose their own leaders, their own future… and their own disaster. > > Things certainly went to hell…but do your friends not realize that it isn’t all America’s fault? Bush invaded, allowed a wave of looting and disorder that caused many of Iraq’s top professionals to flee the country. He disbanded the Iraqi Army, leaving the trained military unpaid and unemployed and causing more instability. He imposed hyper-capitalist kleptocracy on their economy. Then, despite that such cultures had evolved their own erratic, but time-tested, methods of decision and compromise, Bush-Cheney imposed a Western-style election in which 51% could impose their will on the 49%. And you want to treat all this as mostly the Iraqis’ own fault? Good heavens! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/15 "2016-02-22T13:02:58Z")
Don’t be too harsh on **septimus**. The Iraqis-dancing-in-the-streets-story has been confirmed by [Baghdad Bob](http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/). ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/16 "2016-02-22T13:04:36Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Making an example out of Saddam and Iraq to the Islamic Middle Eastern world in the wake of 9/11. Exporting that level of savage brutal civilian terrorism to the West will get _any of you_ utterly destroyed. And there’s absolutely nothing you can do about it. That guy over there mugged me, so I’m going to shoot **you** to prevent it from happening again. Yeah, that makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/17 "2016-02-22T13:21:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Bush invaded, allowed a wave of looting and disorder that caused many of Iraq’s top professionals to flee the country. He disbanded the Iraqi Army, leaving the trained military unpaid and unemployed and causing more instability. He imposed hyper-capitalist kleptocracy on their economy. Then, despite that such cultures had evolved their own erratic, but time-tested, methods of decision and compromise, Bush-Cheney imposed a Western-style election in which 51% could impose their will on the 49%. > > And you want to treat all this as mostly the Iraqis’ own fault? Good heavens! This. It WAS 99% the USA’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/18 "2016-02-22T13:54:04Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Can you ask your Iraqi friends if they see the logical conclusion of this question? They are admitting that their country needed Sadam in power…because Iraqis are incapable of governing themselves. They need a dictator telling them what to do (and proudly killing anybody who disagrees). That is not a logical conclusion. What is the logical conclusion is that violent interventions from outside that break social and state structures open up state collapse and civil war in any divided society… Only prejudice and excuse making for the american incompetence leads to an “incapable” conclusion. > [@septimus](#): > > … He imposed hyper-capitalist kleptocracy on their economy. No, the americans did not even do this, which if it had been at least a true capitalist system would have been an improvement over the failures of the arab socialism. They instead had their cartoon vision of how the market economies work and then completely failed to even manage to organize this in the Iraq, leaving only both broken private sectors and the broken state firms that were already under the regime economic failures. It was a gross incompetence all around neither succeeding in a positive transition to a private market capitalism, or succeeding in the reform of the state sector, already a failure. > [@](#): > > Then, despite that such cultures had evolved their own erratic, but time-tested, methods of decision and compromise, … This is a silly statement. The dictatorship had already broken the historical systems. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/19 "2016-02-22T13:57:02Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That guy over there mugged me, so I’m going to shoot **you** to prevent it from happening again. > > Yeah, that makes sense. We all look alike. It is the lynching mentality of terror. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712/20 "2016-02-22T14:16:50Z")
This discussion is starting to drift into GD territory. So, too, then shall the thread. Though I realize it may come back, depending on how things pan out. Thread relocated. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iraqis-dont-like-the-bushes/746712.md?page=2)