# Ireland abortion referendum 25 May **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 21, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577 "2018-05-21T18:55:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/1 "2018-05-21T18:55:49Z")
Ireland prepares to vote to change the 8th amendment which effectively makes abortion illegal in Ireland. Here’s a summary: …On 25 May, Ireland has a historic opportunity to change the country’s abortion law. Voters will be asked if they want to repeal the eighth amendment, and allow the government to legislate on terminations. If Ireland votes Yes, the existing article of the constitution which was inserted in 1983 – and the 1992 additions – will be replaced with this text: “Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancy.” For its part, the government is proposing that it would legislate to permit abortion in cases where there is a risk to the life of the woman, a medical emergency or a fatal foetal abnormality, or up to 12 weeks without justification… > **[Everything you need to know about Ireland's historic abortion referendum](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/repeal-eighth-amendment-what-is-vote-ireland-abortion-referendum-ban-a8366671.html)** > > The details of Ireland's upcoming abortion referendum explained This vote looks to be close with Yes slightly ahead > **[Latest referendum polls show the 'Yes' side is ahead](https://www.thejournal.ie/abortion-poll-red-c-sunday-business-post-4023304-May2018/)** > > This is likely to be the last of the national surveys before polling day. I can’t believe anyone is really undecided on such a hot button issue such as abortion. But, if undecideds decide that no change is preferable then this vote could be close and NO could win. I’m hoping that there are a lot of undecideds who are shy YES voters and that Ireland can finally start to be rid of their strict abortion laws. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/2 "2018-05-21T19:09:32Z")
If it passes it will be the final nail in the coffin of the near therrocracy of the RCC in Ireland ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/3 "2018-05-22T08:03:23Z")
It is an obscene bit of legislation, distraught women having to take themselves off to another country to get the services they need, all the while being in fear of prosecution. It seems almost unbelievable that a modern, first-world democracy can still have such a law on its books but hopefully for the women of Ireland that’ll all change after Friday. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/4 "2018-05-22T08:40:02Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > It is an obscene bit of legislation, distraught women having to take themselves off to another country to get the services they need, all the while being in fear of prosecution. Not to defend the legislation but, actually, they are not in any fear of prosecution. It is entirely lawful in Ireland to travel to another country for the purpose of having an abortion. Indeed, there is a constitutional right to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/5 "2018-05-22T11:03:39Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Not to defend the legislation but, actually, they are not in any fear of prosecution. It is entirely lawful in Ireland to travel to another country for the purpose of having an abortion. Indeed, there is a constitutional right to do so. Point taken. If they sought to take abortion medication in Ireland that would be illegal but if they do it elsewhere and come back to Ireland it isn’t. I stand by my condemnation of the legislation but I’ll accept that it is merely medieval rather than Orwellian. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/6 "2018-05-22T11:28:11Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Point taken. If they sought to take abortion medication in Ireland that would be illegal but if they do it elsewhere and come back to Ireland it isn’t. > > I stand by my condemnation of the legislation but I’ll accept that it is merely medieval rather than Orwellian. I’m pro-choice, but I still think you’re off on the “medieval” part. Abortion, at least in England, was generally [legal in roughly the first trimester until relatively modern times](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States#History) at which point it was made illegal in most countries. > [@](#): > > When the United States first became independent, most states applied English common law to abortion. This meant it was not permitted after quickening, or the start of fetal movements, usually felt 15–20 weeks after conception. > > Abortions became illegal by statute in Britain in 1803, and various anti-abortion statutes began to appear in the United States in the 1820s… ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/7 "2018-05-22T11:28:33Z")
Wait, abortion is illegal in a European country? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2018, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/8 "2018-05-22T11:35:08Z")
And legal with limitations in others. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/9 "2018-05-23T00:06:58Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > And legal with limitations in others. It’s legal with limitations in all European countries, so far as I know, including Ireland. The differences relate to the scope and nature of the limitations. I don’t think there’s any European country in which there are no legal limitations at all on abortion, nor any in which abortions are illegal in all circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/10 "2018-05-23T07:28:08Z")
In Ireland it’s illegal. Completely illegal. No exceptions. They won’t prosecute people for getting an abortion outside the country, but that’s not the same as being legal. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/11 "2018-05-23T08:23:24Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > In Ireland it’s illegal. > > Completely illegal. No exceptions. Not so. Abortion is legal if there is a “real and substantial risk” of loss of life if the abortion is not performed. There are prescribed procedures for determining whether such a risk exists. Small numbers of abortions are carried out in Ireland each year under the provisions of the relevant legislation. > [@Nava](#): > > They won’t prosecute people for getting an abortion outside the country, but that’s not the same as being legal. It’s not that they won’t prosecute. They _can’t_ prosecute; no law is broken. That’s pretty much the definition of “legal”. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/12 "2018-05-23T08:32:49Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Not so. Abortion is legal if there is a “real and substantial risk” of loss of life if the abortion is not performed. It depends on how you define “[real and substantial risk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar)”, though. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/13 "2018-05-23T08:41:59Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > It depends on how you define “[real and substantial risk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar)”, though. Yes. Under the prescribed procedures that’s a medical assessment, not a legal one. Just to be clear, I’m not defending this law; I think it’s appalling. If I had a vote in the referendum I would vote to change the current situation. But in the interests of fighting ignorance I’m pointing out that it’s not true to say that abortion is illegal in Ireland in all circumstances with no exceptions. There are circumstances in which it is legal, and small numbers of abortions are actually carried out in those circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/14 "2018-05-23T08:58:28Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > It’s not that they won’t prosecute. They _can’t_ prosecute; no law is broken. That’s pretty much the definition of “legal”. But not of “in Ireland”. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/15 "2018-05-23T09:20:41Z")
Two days left to go before I get to vote in this referendum. I think this one is going to be a lot closer than the same-sex-marriage referendum in 2015. I wouldn’t even be all that surprised if the repeal effort fails. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/16 "2018-05-23T10:16:04Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > But not of “in Ireland”. Well, that’s like asking whether smoking cannabis in Amsterdam is legal in Ireland. Does the question even have any meaning? It’s certainly not illegal in Ireland. Nobody who goes to Amsterdam to broaden their mind culturally and chemically is prosecuted in Ireland for doing so, and this isn’t because of any forbearance on the part of the Irish authorities; it’s because its perfectly legal in Ireland to travel to Amsterdam to do things that you can’t do in Ireland. And the same goes for travelling to obtain an abortion. It’s not illegal in Ireland in any sense of the phrase “illegal in Ireland”. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/17 "2018-05-23T17:19:58Z")
It is legal to travel. It is legal for doctors to give you contact details for clinics/hospitals in the UK. I know this because this is all too real for me to talk about it without becoming so emotional as to have no value in a sensible conversation. We had a fatal diagnosis at the 20 week scan two years ago and had to travel. The process and experience was one that has left me filled with almost uncontrollable rage at my country for having let me and my wife down so badly. It made the worse time of our lives so much harder and painful. If you’re Irish please vote Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/18 "2018-05-23T17:25:58Z")
Without derailing the thread, isn’t this phenomenon kind of like SSM or Brexit or the Scottish independence movement, in the sense that you can run an unlimited number of referendums until you get the “Yes” vote you want, but all a “No” vote merely postpones the status quo until the next referendum, and hence the momentum and power always lies on the “yes” side, since 99 “noes” don’t mean much but all is needed is one “yes?” ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/19 "2018-05-23T17:38:51Z")
The last time we voted on this was in the 80’s. I think that’s long enough for a new generation to have their say in how their country runs. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577/20 "2018-05-23T18:06:43Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > If you’re Irish please vote Yes. I am and I will. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ireland-abortion-referendum-25-may/814577.md?page=2)