# IRIS Engine: Hype or the real deal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 13, 2010, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505 "2010-07-13T05:57:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/21 "2012-08-23T08:29:11Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > No idea if this will work or not but I have to give it props for being invented by a man named Timber Dick. I heard he has some impressive wood. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/22 "2012-08-23T11:49:20Z")
> [@Feliks](#): > > is such a film, but here is the sound was dubbed… : Rolleyes: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ3Pohh502E](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ3Pohh502E) > > Andrew > By the way, are you see ever antygravity ?? > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb8IFfnbjY8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb8IFfnbjY8) > > : D 1. I wanted to see a movie of _your_ engine in action, not a walkaround of an old car engine sitting on a bench. 2. What does that second video have to do with what we’re talking about? Can you show us a video of _your_ engine while it is running? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/23 "2012-08-23T12:23:51Z")
They’re never really clear about _why_ this engine is supposed to be more efficient than conventional reciprocating-piston engines. There are several steps in a conventional engine at which energy is lost or discarded: **Pumping Losses.** Energy is spent trying to suck air into the engine and trying to blow exhaust out of the engine. These losses are actually pretty modest at wide-open-throttle conditions in a conventional gasoline engine. They are higher at part-load, when you are trying to suck air past a partially-closed throttle plate; the same would be true of the IRIS engine, unless they’re using variable valve timing to control engine breathing (and VVT can be used to control breathing on a conventional engine too; nothing special there for the IRIS). **Blow-by.** On a conventional engine, gases leak past the piston rings. Whether it’s raw fuel-air mixture or combustion products, that represents energy that won’t be converted to work. These losses aren’t likely to be lower on the IRIS engine, which appears to have far more linear inches of seal per unit-volume of displacement. **Thermal losses.** Your car’s engine needs a radiator because the hot combustion gases lose heat to the cylinder walls, and those walls need to be kept cool enough so that the oil can maintain its lubricative function. The IRIS engine will have the same issues. **Compression ratio.** Or more specifically, expansion ratio. This sets an upper bound on engine efficiency. Modern production gasoline engines typically operate at around 11 or 12 to 1, which caps overall efficiency at less than 50% (see [chart here](http://igss.wdfiles.com/local--files/otto-cycle%3Aefficiecy-vs-compression-ratio/efficiencyOttoSmall.PNG)). The fuel chemistry limits the allowable compression ratio, but the important thing for efficiency is the expansion ratio; the latter can be held high in a conventional engine by using the [Atkinson cycle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle), as is done on the Toyota Prius. The IRIS engine may have a high expansion ratio, but as noted, this is not something that’s unique to the IRIS. They make some claim about increased “working surface area,” but why exactly does this matter? They don’t say. So why, exactly, is the IRIS claimed to be more efficient??? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/24 "2012-08-23T12:45:52Z")
> [@Feliks](#): > > As you are an engineer, you should not speak on topics enginering. 'Cause you don’t know even the basics of enginering . Talking, for example, that big weight of reciprocating mass back.Not true, but unless you do not have noticed that the bottom of the shaft (with four piston) rotates teh two times slower, so the force from the weight of the reciprocating mass callback is 4 times smaller, because it is the square of the speed trap. But can this pistons comes 60% capacity cylinder, which also does not have noticed. , so minus four times force from reciprocating mass feedback. > One of the physicists of the Swiss so nicely wrote: > > Daniel , CH physicist elegant describe efficiency: > > ------------------- Mass - RPM - inertial forces---- intake cm^3— intake/inertia > 1 main piston — 2 ------ 2 ---- 2 \* 2^2 =8 ------- 600 ------ 75 > 2 valve pistons - 2\*1 ---- 1 — 2 \* 1 \* 1^2= 2 — 360 ----- 1 80 > > ===\> intake / inertia is better for valve piston than main piston. > Of course in sensible borders . > > Besides, it’s good to know how to really is an engineer, why is heavier.. > > [http://www.new4stroke.com/weight4.jpg](http://www.new4stroke.com/weight4.jpg) > > Weight popped 75 mm 1000 G > weight piston & rod 76.5 mm 850 G > > Besides, with the second prototype, the curiosity I and i want to say that this is the best acting I have seen how the engine in my life … > Although the issue that could that could not necessarily so as to be > But is the best … However, I have a little bit of luck… > > Andrew: D Didn’t you mean to join in July? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/25 "2012-08-23T13:07:10Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > They make some claim about increased “working surface area,” but why exactly does this matter? They don’t say. > > So why, exactly, is the IRIS claimed to be more efficient??? I couldn’t figure anything out from the sources supplied. They seem to be saying the force of combustion applied over a larger surface are is more efficient. This is true in a conventional piston engine with wider shallower piston in the conversion to of energy to a shorter stroke. But that simplifies the mechanical design of an engine while this one makes it much more complex. It’s hard to believe with that weird mechansim to transfer the linear motion to rotary that any advantage can be obtained. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/26 "2012-08-23T14:24:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I couldn’t figure anything out from the sources supplied. They seem to be saying the force of combustion applied over a larger surface are is more efficient. This is true in a conventional piston engine with wider shallower piston in the conversion to of energy to a shorter stroke. It’s _not_ true that a wider piston (and shorter stroke) inherently makes for more efficient conversion of heat to work in a conventional engine. As in any other engine, the expansion ratio limits peak efficiency, and unless you change that, the theoretical limit will still be the same. Moreover, in an [oversquare engine,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversquare#Oversquare_or_short-stroke_engine) there may be reduced piston/ring friction, but the increase in combustion chamber surface area results in higher thermal losses than would otherwise occur; the net result is typically _lower_ efficiency. > [@](#): > > But that simplifies the mechanical design of an engine 😕 An oversquare engine is no simpler (or more complex) than an engine with a different bore-to-stroke ratio; it still has the same number of parts. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/27 "2012-08-23T14:35:11Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > 😕 An oversquare engine is no simpler (or more complex) than an engine with a different bore-to-stroke ratio; it still has the same number of parts. Simpler was the wrong word. It has a shorter stroke reducing the length of motion of the piston and rod, but putting more force into the bearing. That’s all I meant. You’re description of the efficiency difference sounds right. I was just picking that as an example of a case where greater surface area has some advantage. I don’t see it carrying over to the Iris design at all. As a matter of fact it’s so much more complicated with so much more bearing area it doesn’t make sense to expect any advantage from it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/28 "2012-08-23T21:33:55Z")
> [@Feliks](#): > > is such a film, but here is the sound was dubbed… : Rolleyes: > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ3Pohh502E](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ3Pohh502E) I’m not very knowledgeable about what a new prototype engine should look like, but this looks alot like something pulled from an auto junkyard. ---
**Author:** ![Feliks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/feliks/32/7312_2.png) [@Feliks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feliks)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/29 "2012-08-23T22:21:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m not very knowledgeable about what a new prototype engine should look like, but this looks alot like something pulled from an auto junkyard. Not the gold, which is lit… Our ration, quite enough chromium on this engine … But how is the sound.I am sure that you escaped from garage, when I start it… And not look … Ok, little chromium specjaly for YOU : [http://www.new4stroke.com/images/muffler.jpg](http://www.new4stroke.com/images/muffler.jpg) And such clutter you will not see you never… [http://www.new4stroke.com/images/Uff.jpg](http://www.new4stroke.com/images/Uff.jpg) Andrew: D ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/30 "2012-08-23T22:57:53Z")
> [@Feliks](#): > > Not the gold, which is lit… > Our ration, quite enough chromium on this engine … > > But how is the sound.I am sure that you escaped from garage, when I start it… > > And not look … > > Ok, little chromium specjaly for YOU : > > [http://www.new4stroke.com/images/muffler.jpg](http://www.new4stroke.com/images/muffler.jpg) > And such clutter you will not see you never… > > [http://www.new4stroke.com/images/Uff.jpg](http://www.new4stroke.com/images/Uff.jpg) > > Andrew: D For the last time: Can you or can you not show us a video of your prototype engine in action? NO photographs of engine pieces. NO simplistic animations. JUST _your_ engine, operating. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/31 "2012-08-23T23:38:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I went to his website, and noticed a few things: > > 1. On his qualifications he lists that he was a sound engineer that traveled with many famous Polish bands, was a Rally driver, and produced dimmer switches. > 2. His first prototype was made in 1978. > 3. Lots of diagrams, drawings and black-and-white photos of engine parts, but no live action movies of engine working. > Is there an estimated date for when we will get to see this thing in action? A sound engineer? Well now I’m convinced :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Feliks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/feliks/32/7312_2.png) [@Feliks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feliks)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/32 "2012-08-23T23:45:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For the last time: Can you or can you not show us a video of your prototype engine in action? > NO photographs of engine pieces. > NO simplistic animations. > JUST _your_ engine, operating. Not because I do not have such a movie. It would be a purpose. Open the mask of his car, start the engine and make the film. Then extinguish engine and also make the movie. I think that the only sound you know whether the engine is working as expected, or not … and you’re not the first, which calls for teh video … post 10 [http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2613](http://www.nogripracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2613) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/33 "2012-08-24T01:02:15Z")
> [@Feliks](#): > > And it does not need oil lubrication… Why not? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/34 "2012-08-24T02:04:51Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Why not? Because its a complete fabrication. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/35 "2012-08-24T02:16:36Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > **Thermal losses.** Your car’s engine needs a radiator because the hot combustion gases lose heat to the cylinder walls, and those walls need to be kept cool enough so that the oil can maintain its lubricative function. The IRIS engine will have the same issues. It might even have them to a worse degree. Looking at the animation, I can’t see how those flapping petal things are supposed to be kept cool. Oil sprayed on the outside? Cooling channels run through the shafts somehow? Or has that issue simply not been thought of at all? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/36 "2012-08-24T03:00:44Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Because its a complete fabrication. Well, that’s obvious, but I have a sado-masochistic desire to fight my way through his explanation in fractured English. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/37 "2012-08-24T03:14:50Z")
From the thread he last linked to: [![](http://www.new4stroke.com/WaterRedBaron.jpg) ](http://www.new4stroke.com/WaterRedBaron.jpg) Tells me pretty much what I need to know about his “engineering”. ---
**Author:** ![Feliks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/feliks/32/7312_2.png) [@Feliks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feliks)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/38 "2012-08-24T08:37:56Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > From the thread he last linked to: > > [http://www.new4stroke.com/WaterRedBaron.jpg](http://www.new4stroke.com/WaterRedBaron.jpg) > > Tells me pretty much what I need to know about his “engineering”. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb8IFfnbjY8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb8IFfnbjY8) And my applied in industry movie you skip? can you against the film for an Oscar ?? And here you see that you can replace a small ball in a little water… But, I think that so far you know not of such science fiction. But I also did not knew about such achievements “engineering” [http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/2743/fortcalhounnuclearpower.jpg](http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/2743/fortcalhounnuclearpower.jpg) Most importantly, you are felt later safely… Regards Andrew: D ---
**Author:** ![Feliks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/feliks/32/7312_2.png) [@Feliks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feliks)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/39 "2012-08-24T08:49:03Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Why not? Therefore, that “piston” not of the cylinder friction .. And the seals are made of Teflon May be with Teflon. because i “piston” and cylinder water cooled jesy, causing the temperature of the items is not higher than 120 degrees Celsius. Will sell its shares of oil company? > [@dropzone](#): > > Well, that’s obvious, but I have a sado-masochistic desire to fight my way through his explanation in fractured English. I’m doing, see carefully to my mouth… : D: D ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505/40 "2012-08-24T14:15:01Z")
> [@Feliks](#): > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb8IFfnbjY8](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb8IFfnbjY8) > > And my applied in industry movie you skip? can you against the film for an Oscar ?? > > And here you see that you can replace a small ball in a little water… > > But, I think that so far you know not of such science fiction. > > But I also did not knew about such achievements “engineering” > [http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/2743/fortcalhounnuclearpower.jpg](http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/2743/fortcalhounnuclearpower.jpg) > > Most importantly, you are felt later safely… > > Regards Andrew: D No more random movies and pictures of other people’s stuff, please. When will _you_ have a working model of _your_ engine available for inspection? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/iris-engine-hype-or-the-real-deal/546505.md?page=3)