# Irish Citizenship Question **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2007, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994 "2007-06-14T13:57:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/21 "2007-06-16T10:41:06Z")
One complication for ancestors born in Ireland before 1926, such as my Grandfather, is that the Customs House in Dublin was burned down in the Civil War, and with it a great number of birth records. When I was investigating my own case, I would have had to try to get the parish record rather than the central government one, which would have been more effort. Amazing to have history impinge on one’s own life like that. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2007, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/22 "2007-06-16T15:38:31Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] Amazing to have history impinge on one’s own life like that. [/QUOTE] My g/f found quite a few family records in church records, they’re quite good. Reminds me of a story about the father of a family friend. When prompted to retire from the postal service in the Republic, he simply said he was too young, his birth cert having gone up in smoke they couldn’t prove otherwise. Nice story, whether true or not. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/23 "2007-06-17T10:04:51Z")
Here’s a question. My parents were from the Six Counties and emigrated to the US while the constitution of the Free State still held claim to the Six Counties. I was born while the claim was still in effect. That claim has since been amended out as part of the Good Friday Accords. Can I still claim citizenship in the Free State based on that? ---
**Author:** ![williambaskerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@williambaskerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williambaskerville)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/24 "2007-06-17T10:49:08Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup] Here’s a question. My parents were from the Six Counties and emigrated to the US while the constitution of the Free State still held claim to the Six Counties. I was born while the claim was still in effect. That claim has since been amended out as part of the Good Friday Accords. Can I still claim citizenship in the Free State based on that? [/QUOTE] No,of course you can’t, there’s no Free State any more. (That’s a loaded term, to an Irishman). Yes of course you can. Every one born on the island of Ireland is entitled to Irish citizenship, according to the laws of the Irish Republic (note laws, not constitution). We down in the South would never countenace a situation where Seamus Heaney, for example, couldn’t proclaim that his “passport is green”. (Although I presume his is now a kind of reddy pink, same color as mine. But I bet his has a harp on the front,too). The Republic’s current President was born in the 6 counties, as another example. If you’re born in the 6 counties, you’re an Irish citizen if you want to be, and your children have all the rights of someone born south of the border. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/25 "2007-06-17T11:03:51Z")
AFAIK, anyone born anywhere on the island of Ireland still qualifies for a passport from the Irish Republic, which superseded the Free State. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/26 "2007-06-17T11:06:59Z")
OOps, sorry **williambaskerville** , should have previewed. Edit: oh for Christ’s sake. I need to improve my reading comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/27 "2007-06-17T16:00:50Z")
\*\*MichaelQReilly \*\* you could probably live here without citizenship if you’re not going to be economically active. Anyway [here’s](http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/moving-country/moving-to-ireland/coming-to-live-in-ireland/retiring-to-ireland) a link that might be useful. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/28 "2007-06-17T21:22:28Z")
Nah, I was born here. Mom and Dad both from County Antrim. I was kicking around the idea of dual/Irish citizenship and was hoping there was a short route. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/29 "2007-06-17T21:42:37Z")
[QUOTE=williambaskerville] The Republic’s current President was born in the 6 counties, as another example. [/QUOTE] Actually, is that definitely an example of this? I’m not challenging, just wondering… Because under bilateral agreements, British and Irish citizens resident in the other country can vote in all elections. I don’t know whether it’s part of the same agreements, but Irish citizens can stand for election to the British Parliament. I don’t know if there’s a specific bar on them becoming British PM, nor if there’s equivalent restrictions in Ireland. But as an assumption that the PM of Britain has British citizenship may not be correct, perhaps the same assumption of the Irish president is also not necessarily valid? ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/30 "2007-06-17T23:09:12Z")
[QUOTE=williambaskerville] (That’s a loaded term, to an Irishman) [/QUOTE] So is “six counties” to quite a few in Northern Ireland 😉 [QUOTE=GorillaMan] I don’t know whether it’s part of the same agreements, but Irish citizens can stand for election to the British Parliament [/QUOTE] A wiki link to the [9th Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland) if it helps 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/31 "2007-06-17T23:25:27Z")
Aha, it does - perhaps the principal of reciprocal rights does not apply to Irish presidents or presidential elections, because there is no British equivalent of these? That’d be a typically Irish subtle diplomatic ‘fuck you’ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/32 "2007-06-18T10:58:24Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Because under bilateral agreements, British and Irish citizens resident in the other country can vote in all elections. [/QUOTE] All elections **apart** from Constitutional referendums, only Irish citizens can vote in them. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/33 "2007-06-18T13:13:04Z")
Hijack alert. How are “Free State” and “Six Counties” loaded terms north or south of the border? Free State is an archaic way of saying the Southern 26 counties that my family from the north always use. It is sometimes used in a humourous way but usually just what they say for the Republic. I don’t know how Six Counties could annoy anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/34 "2007-06-18T13:25:05Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] I don’t know how Six Counties could annoy anyone. [/QUOTE] Its sometimes used to imply that the six counties of Northern Ireland are six counties of the Republic of Ireland, hence the graffitti 26 + 6 = 32 or with perhaps a little picture of Ireland (the Island) replacing the 32 or beside it. To me its more of a pain to listen to because its usually heard from a member of Sinn Fein on TV and that lot are bad enough with their made up English terms like “securocrats” :rolleyes: My Mum and I use the term Free Staters too when complaining about Irish drivers who’ve crossed the border. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/35 "2007-06-18T13:26:47Z")
[QUOTE=yojimbo] All elections **apart** from Constitutional referendums, only Irish citizens can vote in them. [/QUOTE] Or presidential. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/36 "2007-06-18T13:35:55Z")
An explanation from my Donegal cousins is that the use of ‘Six Counties’ serves to underline the fact that Northern Ireland does not actually equate to Ulster, as well as those who cannot bring themselves to use any other name for the British territory. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/37 "2007-06-18T15:23:36Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] Hijack alert. How are “Free State” and “Six Counties” loaded terms north or south of the border? [/QUOTE] For southerners who have the time and muppetry to worry about such old history Free State can reference Civil War politics. If you self identify as a Republican then The Free State and Staters were the thing your cause was fighting against. The use of it up north is also seen as a slight against the Republic as that’s what it is now, it is no longer the Free State. Very silly IMO but there you go.. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/38 "2007-06-18T17:15:08Z")
[QUOTE=yojimbo] Very silly IMO but there you go.. [/QUOTE] But it still pales into comparison with the Derry/Londonderry debate 😛 I don’t really give a toss, Derry is shorter, that’s all. What irks me is someone who will shorten Carrickfergus to Carrick (as all towns with Carrick in the name are shortened to by locals) but correct you on Derry :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/39 "2007-06-19T00:54:23Z")
Thanks to all of those who have replied so far. It would appear that obtaining Irish citizenship through my father is out because he wasn’t a citizen at my birth. This still leaves another option I discussed. Assuming we get married, my girlfriend’s grandfather was born in Scotland to Irish parents. Does Scotland have the same birthright citizenship that Ireland does? If so, then she can just become as citizen of the UK and live in Ireland as an EU citizen. Me, I can tag along, and I’m sure it makes my obtaining citizenship easier. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2007, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994/40 "2007-06-19T07:09:28Z")
Britain (whether Scotland or elsewhere) is different again, every country being free to make up their own citizenship rules. And a British grandparent alone would not be enough, as the requirement for citizenship by descent is a parent who is a British citizen other than by descent. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-citizenship-question/407994.md?page=1)