# Irish Drinking Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 28, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954 "2008-10-28T16:08:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/21 "2008-10-28T20:06:45Z")
Okay, James Barrett has several arguments about the prevalence of drinking in Irish culture. Pretty interesting stuff. Here’s his reasons: -Economic - almost all transactions were accompanied by drinking. A member of the Select Committee on Drunkenness said that “There are no dry bargains,” and in the Irish economy, heavily constricted and constrained by English mercantilism, drink was nearly a kind of currency, or at least a lubricant for economic interactions. It’s difficult to overstate the prevalence of drinking in Irish culture - marriages were arranged over mugs and mugs of whiskey, local livestock fairs were dominated by the whiskey truck which would drive in, and workers were often paid with drink in addition to wages. One Irishman remarked on the state of towns at the time that “little bits of business got in, as if by stealth, in between drinks during the day.” - Utilitarian uses - drink was used as a folk medicine for centuries, and it was even used as a source of food. During Lent and various Catholic holidays, peasants fasted, but drink wasn’t banned, so whiskey was drank in huge quantities, even by priests. The potato famine led to the same usage of whiskey - and this is right around when Irish immigrants came to the US in huge numbers, probably generating the stereotype. - Socializing - sex was heavily repressed in Irish culture. Premarital sex brought heavy sanctions, so social segregation was encouraged. Men would go off to the pub to drink together. ---
**Author:** ![KnitWit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@KnitWit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KnitWit)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/22 "2008-10-28T20:25:19Z")
> [@WoodenTaco](#): > > In the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, the perception was more that Britain as a whole was a nation of drunkards. The average Brit in 1700 was consuming over 1,000 pints of beer per year, and cultural documents from that time period tend to support a stereotype of all British, not just the Irish, as drunks. Excuse me, but in MY house, we don’t recognize the British Empire. Heh. I’m half joking. Maybe it’s true that this reputation only lingered for part of the Isles. It’s only that my husband reminds me not infrequently that it was the ENGLISH who burned down his home, killed 7 of his friends (some in front of him) held a gun to his head on a regular basis, beat him up on the way to school, burned his school down, and so on. He often tells me, with fists clenched, that Ireland has 32 counties. “Only our rivers run free…” and so on. It’s always the English or the “Dirty prods” (protestants) who drove their tanks down his streets. Never the British! And then he says, “Is it any wonder I drink?” Interestingly enough, he also mentioned poitin and its tradeability as a potential starting point for the stereotype. And I assume the Irish relationship with invaders has a great deal to do with drinking culture. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/23 "2008-10-28T20:51:47Z")
> [@WoodenTaco](#): > > Why Ireland, and not the rest of Britain? Probably because Ireland isn’t a part of Britain. It’s always trotted out here but be careful with your terminology here. Ireland was part of a union with Great Britain called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/24 "2008-10-28T20:55:52Z")
> [@WoodenTaco](#): > > Wanted to add one more to this: > -The Anglican church in the 19th and early 20th century would publish scathing attacks on drinking. The Irish didn’t hear much of this. Irish Catholicism is pretty unique, and has a lot more of a focus on personal, intimate friendships with local priests than many other forms of Christianity. It’s unlikely that the religious establishment in Ireland would take a similarly chastising tone - but, like I said, no evidence for this, just my guess. This is incorrect. I posted a link above about abstinence in Ireland. It was and continues to be popular. Here is the link again: > **[Father Mathew](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Mathew)** > > Theobald Mathew (10 October 1790 – 8 December 1856) was an Irish Catholic priest, member of the Order of Friars Minor Capuchin, and teetotalist reformer, popularly known as Father Mathew. He was born at Thomastown, near Golden, County Tipperary, on 10 October 1790, to James Mathew and his wife Anne, daughter of George Whyte, of Cappaghwhyte. Of the family of the Earls Landaff (his father, James, was a first cousin of Thomas Mathew, father of the first earl), he was a kinsman of the He received ... ---
**Author:** ![KnitWit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@KnitWit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KnitWit)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/25 "2008-10-28T21:01:59Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Probably because Ireland isn’t a part of Britain. It’s always trotted out here but be careful with your terminology here. Ireland was part of a union with Great Britain called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. Whew…glad you said it too. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/26 "2008-10-28T21:49:29Z")
> [@KnitWit](#): > > It’s only that my husband reminds me not infrequently that it was the ENGLISH who burned down his home, killed 7 of his friends (some in front of him) held a gun to his head on a regular basis, beat him up on the way to school, burned his school down, and so on. He often tells me, with fists clenched, that Ireland has 32 counties. “Only our rivers run free…” and so on Out of curiosity, how old is your husband, which part of the island of Ireland did he live in and when did he leave? Given his experiences someone should write a book, or at the very least compose a plaintive lament! ---
**Author:** ![KnitWit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@KnitWit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KnitWit)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/27 "2008-10-28T22:03:09Z")
> [@Struan](#): > > Out of curiosity, how old is your husband, which part of the island of Ireland did he live in and when did he leave? Given his experiences someone should write a book, or at the very least compose a plaintive lament! My husband is 46 and grew up in Belfast on Antrim Road and he moved to the states nearly 5 years ago. He was in Belfast all his life. He’s given to matter-of-factly complaining about a pub blowing a crater in the earth, leaving HIM to buy the next round at the next pub. "I plunked my 20 quid on the bar and in walks a guy in a ski mask who slams an Adidas bag down next to my money and shouts, ‘15 minutes to get out!’ Didn’t I lose my 20 quid and have to buy at the Kells? In spite of my inane ramblings here, I’m actually a professional writer. So it’s not beyond the realm of possibility that we could collaborate. ---
**Author:** ![WoodenTaco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@WoodenTaco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WoodenTaco)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/28 "2008-10-28T22:03:29Z")
In regards to the naming thing - my mistake for including the Irish in that line that An Gadaí picked out. That was an error. However, when I was discussing the stereotypes, that was intentional. From the end of the 1600s up to the early 20th century, the Irish were quite commonly referred to as British. This was undoubtedly a colonial nomenclature, but it was the one used by people of the time, and stereotypes of “the British” _did_ often lump together the English, Welsh, Scottish, and Irish. There were more detailed stereotypes of the individual nations, but perceptions of Britain as “drinking society” weren’t confined to the borders of Britain, and absolutely certainly not to the borders of England. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/29 "2008-10-28T22:50:42Z")
> [@WoodenTaco](#): > > In regards to the naming thing - my mistake for including the Irish in that line that An Gadaí picked out. That was an error. > However, when I was discussing the stereotypes, that was intentional. From the end of the 1600s up to the early 20th century, the Irish were quite commonly referred to as British. This was undoubtedly a colonial nomenclature, but it was the one used by people of the time, and stereotypes of “the British” _did_ often lump together the English, Welsh, Scottish, and Irish. There were more detailed stereotypes of the individual nations, but perceptions of Britain as “drinking society” weren’t confined to the borders of Britain, and absolutely certainly not to the borders of England. I’d like some cites for this please. What common stereotypes were there for all ‘British’ people over this time period? ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/30 "2008-10-29T01:37:44Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Probably because Ireland isn’t a part of Britain. It’s always trotted out here but be careful with your terminology here. Ireland was part of a union with Great Britain called the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. You’re correct, of course. But contrast that with the still prevalent use of the term “British Isles” to refer to Britain and Ireland. Its a common view among many. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/31 "2008-10-29T02:21:05Z")
Lousy weather and inescapable, oppressively strict Catholicism. What more do you need? ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/32 "2008-10-29T02:34:10Z")
I’d like to point out that the Irish don’t exactly expend a lot of effort dissuading the rest of the world of this image of Irish = boozers. I spent 2 weeks there last year and every native Irish person made it clear through words or action that the Irish drink a lot. One day we got a tour guide talking about St. David (or some Saint), the Saint of Abstinence, who came tho Ireland and preached abstinence from alcohol. They finish the talk with the line, “You see how well that lesson took!” A great number of other natives talked freely about how the Irish drink a lot, or just plain demonstrated the act of drinking themselves loopy. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/33 "2008-10-29T05:04:15Z")
> [@KnitWit](#): > > My husband is 46 and grew up in Belfast on Antrim Road and he moved to the states nearly 5 years ago. He was in Belfast all his life. He’s given to matter-of-factly complaining about a pub blowing a crater in the earth, leaving HIM to buy the next round at the next pub. IF you pass on his name in a pm , its possible that my parents either know him, or his family. Declan ---
**Author:** ![FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrWindyShephardHenderson)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/34 "2008-10-29T09:18:51Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > It is worth noting that Ireland has traditionally had a high level of abstinence too. > [Father Mathew - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Mathew) See I always find this hilarious when I see all the drunken masses using his statue for support at three o clock in the morning in Cork. I think the Irish drinking reputation can be divided into an older poor fella propping the bar type image and the current second highest drinkers in europe and generally messy young people image (of which I do have more of a first hand knowledge I’ll admit). The current one I think stems from the first one but also is influenced by what young people in England do. Young British people tend to binge drink just as badly as us. And given the recent years of economic progress we now have money to do said binging. I for one know that when our students bring this to America for the summer it does nothing to rid us of the drinking reputation. The older image is tougher to explain. I think it is a combination of factors. Poverty, the only means of openly tolerated vice back in the “theocracy” days, those pesky English. But I think the single greatest factor is that until recently the majority, or at lest a huge minority, of the country lived in towns with one church and about ten pubs and NOTHING else to do. For a guided tour of this, anyone who is ever in Cork please take a drive through Macroom. Ireland was a poor country, with appaling transport infrastrucure and very bad weather. Outdoor adventure sports were never going to take off. Also An Gadai can we please wait till December to use phrases like the rare o’ mountain dew. I’m gonna be singing Fairytale of New York all day now! ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/35 "2008-10-29T09:54:06Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > You’re correct, of course. But contrast that with the still prevalent use of the term “British Isles” to refer to Britain and Ireland. Its a common view among many. That is a geographical term. Saying that Canada is part of North America doesn’t make Canada a part of the United States. 🙂 [http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2006/1002/1158591275647.html](http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2006/1002/1158591275647.html) ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/36 "2008-10-29T10:27:44Z")
In addition to the historical reasons, I would argue that a lot of Irish stereotypes have been influenced or exaggerated and codified by St Patricks Day. Every one gets to be Irish for the day, and the idea of what being Irish means has been holiday-ized in a similar fashion as other holidays have been mythologized from their original meanings. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/37 "2008-10-29T11:20:17Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > The figure for alcohol consumption in Luxembourg is apparently skewed by the fact that it is a popular boozing destination for people from its neighbouring countries. That probably skews data for, say, the Czech Republic too then. There’s locations where the locals may drink a lot but it’s relatively light stuff (beer, wine) and it’s the foreigners who crank up the heavy stuff. Never understood the point of coming to Spain to drink vodka and whisky, myself… is waking up on the beach when a toddler steps on you more pleasant than doing so on your sofa? In Spain in recent years we’re having a phenomenon of young people drinking by the bottlefull stuff which previously used to be drunk either in thimbles or by sailors. Is this happening in Ireland as well? ---
**Author:** ![FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@FrWindyShephardHenderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrWindyShephardHenderson)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/38 "2008-10-29T11:32:17Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > In Spain in recent years we’re having a phenomenon of young people drinking by the bottlefull stuff which previously used to be drunk either in thimbles or by sailors. Is this happening in Ireland as well? Yes this has been happening in Ireland for quite some time. Generally lads will drink beer until a certain point of the night at which point something stronger will be broke out. There is a lot of worry, wrongly or rightly, about girls who unlike the lads will be drinking the stronger stuff all night. My drinking careers has been confined to this century but I’m sure someone else will be able to tell you if young people did this back in eighties. ---
**Author:** ![corkboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@corkboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/corkboard)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/39 "2008-10-29T12:46:59Z")
> [@KnitWit](#): > > This was one of my guesses. I know of a couple of elements of Irish culture that are actually part of Irish immigrant culture. For example, my husband didn’t SEE corned beef and cabbage until he came here. I believe that’s cheap immigrant food, not Irish food. The same can be said with certain naming trends. **No respectable couple in Ireland would name their daughter Erin**. > > The answer about the post-1840 famine issues seems like another good candidate. Thanks for the input you guys! (bolding mine) I’m curious- why would this be the case? ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2008, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954/40 "2008-10-29T12:52:39Z")
> [@corkboard](#): > > (bolding mine) I’m curious- why would this be the case? I don’t know specifically why but it just isn’t that popular here. Neither is Colleen (Cailin - girl in Irish) for that matter. I suppose the name America wouldn’t be that common in America. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-drinking-question/469954.md?page=3)