# Irish General Election **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 17, 2002, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516 "2002-05-17T08:15:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/21 "2002-05-17T13:01:17Z")
Well, that’s odd **AnnaLucretia**. I’m sorta dyslexic and I read your screen name as AnalSecretia…I really did (but I’d also just finished reading a post by Anal Scurvy so…). Funny old world. Anyway, bottoms up ! ---
**Author:** ![AnnaLucretia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e95f7d/32.png) [@AnnaLucretia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnnaLucretia)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/22 "2002-05-17T13:28:34Z")
**London\_Calling** , that’s a first… and now I see it that way too… Thanks ever so much… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/23 "2002-05-17T13:51:42Z")
\*Originally posted by Coldfire \* \*\*Hemlock, Sinn Fein is the political branch of the IRA, but it does not EQUAL the IRA. \*\* You’ve lost me already. If it’s the political branch of the IRA, it must uphold the policies of the IRA. The word “branch” (I think “wing” is often used) means “part of” or “extension of”. \*\*Over the last years, Sinn Fein have been involved in disarming that very same IRA. \*\* Not sure. They’ve sought to assure people the IRA is disarming, or sought to excuse IRA foot-dragging. But this is my point - the party is the political arm of an unconstitutionally armed movement that has a history of killing innocent people. And apparently intelligent Dopers are blithely saying they’re voting for it. \*\*I’ll leave it to you to prove an organised connection between the IRA and Colombian terrorists (guerrillas, actually) exists. Just because four Paddies and an ounce of Semtex were caught doesn’t mean it’s an organised situation. \*\* OK - let’s say they were bird-watching… \*\*I’d imagine the Irish vote for Sinn Fein mainly because of their views towards what they still consider English occupation of the Northern part of the Republic of Ireland. \*\* This is what shocks me. I can’t believe Irish voters put this above schools, crime, inflation, jobs, health care etc. So are Irish dopers who are voting for Sinn Fein consciously voting for the political wing of an armed movement? Or do they consider Sinn Fein a regular political party? I can only assume the latter. In which case, do they regard the IRA link as unfortunate, embarrassing, a quirk of history, or what? [inflammatory] If they were New Yorkers, would they vote for a mayoral candidate belonging to the political arm of Al-Qaeda? [/inflammatory] ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/24 "2002-05-17T14:08:10Z")
That Al Qaeda analogy right there tells me enough, Hemlock. You are obviously not knowledgable enough on the Northern Ireland matter. Read up on your history and contemporary politics, and get back to us with a decently worded Great Debate. Think of it this way: I just made sure you don’t look like a complete fool. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/25 "2002-05-17T14:13:57Z")
Maybe we should not vote for them at all. Let their cousins with guns speak for republicans. That would be better wouldn’t it 😉 Anyhoo Sein Fein are not going to get into Gov. but at a local level they could very well put some pressure on the centre to right wingers that are there at the moment. They are also the only party standing across the border. The more they are involved in politics the more they have to loose if the peace process breaks down. > [@](#): > > This is what shocks me. I can’t believe Irish voters put this above schools, crime, inflation, jobs, health care etc. They are involved in these things. Martin McGuinness is the Minister for Education in NI for example. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/26 "2002-05-17T14:15:43Z")
I must admit my jaw dropped slightly at **jjimm** ’s claim that Sinn Féin are the _only_ party striving for a united Ireland. I mean, well, blimey, there’s at least two in _Northern_ Ireland, is there no equivalent of the SDLP down in the south? ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/27 "2002-05-17T14:23:17Z")
**jjimm+Twisty** , I presume the nazi scum wasn’t our favourite Corkonian midget schoolteacher racist as she’s standing in Dublin South Central and the other candidates mentioned are standing in Dublin Central. BTW, if you have any preference whatsoever for one candidate over another, even if it is moderate racist over hardline racist or some such, you should continue your preferences. Your vote becoming untransferrable does nothing to aid the less distasteful one. Of course, if after your first couple of preferences, you reckon they’re all as bad as each other, there’s no point continuing. So **Pergau** , you would do more damage to the FF candidates by voting down the card and putting them last than by not expressing a preference. Even if the Green and some of the others get elected, your vote could transfer as part of their surplus. **Hemlock** , I would second what **yojimbo** said about people’s motivations for voting Sinn Fein. In my case I voted for them because of my support for their stance on the national question but people outside of Ireland might be surprised at how small an issue the North is in southern general elections. Local issues are a huge factor in garnering support for SF - they have been very active in working class communities, particularly in the areas of social services, health, education and drugs. SF have figured highly in the voting patterns of Irish Dopers but, to give some perspective for others, they are unlikely to take more than 5 or 6 seats out of 166 (still a big improvement on the 1 they have at the moment). Also, SF were unelectable in the south before the peace process. Now that the ‘war is over’ (fingers crossed and all that), they do stand a chance of becoming a serious political force down here. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/28 "2002-05-17T14:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > If it’s the political branch of the IRA this is where the problem starts. Its not _exactly_ the political wing of the IRA, considering Sinn Fein where in existence before the IRA was. While I won’t deny that there is links between the two, I firmly believe that Sinn Fein is 100% committed to the peace process. > [@](#): > > Not sure. They’ve sought to assure people the IRA is disarming, or sought to excuse IRA foot-dragging. But this is my point - the party is the political arm of an unconstitutionally armed movement that has a history of killing innocent people. And apparently intelligent Dopers are blithely saying they’re voting for it. The IRA are on ceasefire, and have had 2 acts of decommissioning in the last year. Which is 2 more than any of the Loyalist groups, FYI. they have stood by each point of the GFA. Sinn Fein are a party devoted to peace. I believe this. If I honestly didn’t believe this, I wouldn’t support them. Aside for the 32 county issue, Sinn Fein have a long history of working for the community they are elected to represent. They have a large grass roots following based on what they have achieved in the community. > [@](#): > > I can’t believe Irish voters put this above schools, crime, inflation, jobs, health care etc. So are Irish dopers who are voting for Sinn Fein consciously voting for the political wing of an armed movement? No, because If you had bothered to read the manifesto, you would see that Sinn Fein speak a lot about Health, education, housing, crime. Everything you would expect to hear from a political party. Once again, I am asking you to not jump to assumptions about a situation you are far removed from. > [@](#): > > OK - let’s say they were bird-watching… And if they are found guilty, I fully support them recieving a prison term. > [@](#): > > [inflammatory] If they were New Yorkers, would they vote for a mayoral candidate belonging to the political arm of Al-Qaeda? [/inflammatory] This is the new Godwin’s Law, wether you intended it as such or not. As for the IRA’s history, here is where things will vary wildly from one person to another. I do not believe that there is a single reason for guns in politics any more. Where as once there was a reason for the IRA, I dont see there being one now. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/29 "2002-05-17T14:33:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Steve Wright \* > \*\*I must admit my jaw dropped slightly at **jjimm** ’s claim that Sinn Féin are the _only_ party striving for a united Ireland. I mean, well, blimey, there’s at least two in _Northern_ Ireland, is there no equivalent of the SDLP down in the south? \*\* I hate to say it Steve, but there is no equivalent to the SDLP in the Republic. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/30 "2002-05-17T14:37:33Z")
> [@](#): > > jjimm+Twisty, I presume the nazi scum wasn’t our favourite Corkonian midget schoolteacher racist as she’s standing in Dublin South Central and the other candidates mentioned are standing in Dublin Central. Great. the nazi fuckwits are multiplying. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/31 "2002-05-17T14:38:15Z")
Aint Irish politics grand. Can’t even have a thread about the Election without a slight disagreement about the North. Float in off to the North Sea thats what I say 😃 ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/32 "2002-05-17T14:48:58Z")
The SDLP are very moderately left wing (hence the Social Democrat bit). They are also moderately nationalist. The southern Labour party wouldn’t be a million miles away from them. Steve, pretty much all of the southern parties support a united Ireland (at some stage, subject to consent, in an ideal world, in the context of wider european integration, when the swallows fly back to Capistrano - kinda like the SDLP). No-one was talking about the north in the general election campaign. It got less than a minute in the leaders’ TV debate. Not much chance of that here;). ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/33 "2002-05-17T14:50:07Z")
Midget Nazi’s ! ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/34 "2002-05-17T14:53:46Z")
[sub] If anyone says[/sub] **Band Name!** ,[sub] I’ll fucking deck them[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/35 "2002-05-17T15:26:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manwithaplan \* > **Steve, pretty much all of the southern parties support a united Ireland (at some stage, subject to consent, in an ideal world, in the context of wider european integration, when the swallows fly back to Capistrano - kinda like the SDLP).** That’s kind of more what I thought. I mean, I don’t expect that Irish politicians’ entire lives revolve around kicking the Brits out of the North, but **jjimm** ’s comment seemed to imply that it had ceased to be an issue to anyone except the hard-liners - which I found surprising. **yojimbo** , what’s the North Sea ever done to _you_, that you should wish the likes of Ian Paisley on it? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/36 "2002-05-17T17:06:18Z")
I don’t have a vote in general elections (although I did do some canvassing for Sinn Féin). If I did have a vote, it would go as follows: 1. Nicky Kehoe (Sinn Féin) 2. Joe Costelloe (Labour) 3. Tony Gregory (Independent, but a strong leftwinger and seemingly decent guy). And that’s it. Why vote Sinn Féin? Because they are the only party standing candidates that is (1) republican (2) left and (3) pro-GFA (in fact I think they’re the only party that even meets the first two criteria, at least they are in my constituency). And those are the things that matter to me, politically. As for whether they’re the only pro-UI party, well, some people might disagree with that. Fianna Fáil have plastered posters all over the area that read: “Fianna Fáil: The Republican Party”. However, one of the leaflets I received from them (I’m on the register because I do have a vote in local elections) had Bertie saying: "This is what republicanism means to me … " and then he went on about loads of things that have _nothing whatsoever to do_ with republicanism. I think we should sue them for false advertising, personally. I’m feeling pretty good about SF’s chances - I reckon three seats are a cert and wouldn’t be surprised at all if they pick up five. But, I have to say out of the _realistic_ possibilities I really am hoping to see a FF-Labour coalition. Ruairi Quinn as Tánaiste would be a damn sight better than Mary Harney as far as my own personal situation (work permit indentured servant) goes. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/37 "2002-05-18T00:40:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hemlock \* > \*\*Sorry, but … words escape me. You **vote** for these people??? \*\* Yes. In fact, one of the benefits of proportional representation is that I get to vote for _every_ party that sees fit to field a candidate in Dublin South. Sinn Fein didn’t get my first preference (which went as usual to Labour), nor my last (Fianna Fail) but I did vote for them. So, apparently, did quite a lot of other people. I think it would be a mistake to assume that SF voters in the Republic are in general sectarian or supportive of violence. As for a southern equivalent of the SDLP, the Labour Party is considered a sister party of the SDLP. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/38 "2002-05-18T12:50:11Z")
> [@](#): > > As for a southern equivalent of the SDLP, the Labour Party is considered a sister party of the SDLP. at least by themselves, if not by anyone else. 😉 The results are coming through soon… latest polls are showing Sinn Fein to take at least 3 seats. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/977dab/32.png) [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/39 "2002-05-18T13:26:59Z")
Thanks you guys. As someone with a developing interest in Ireland, and things Irish, I’ve found this thread enlightening. Now, if someone could explain how the balance of power between your president and Taoiseach works, I’d be appreciative. I’m also curious about the structure of your Parliament. As I understand, the Taoiseach, as one of his powers appoints, 11(?) members to the upper body of Parliament, the _Seanad Eireann_, right? How are the remaining members selected? The lower body, the _Dail Eireann_, is selected proportionally by party, from the popular vote, correct? And finally, where can I find information on the politcal parties themselves. The Sinn Fein link provided above was quite informative. > [@](#): > > The results are coming through soon… latest polls are showing Sinn Fein to take at least 3 seats. And this represents an increase over Sinn Fein’s current count, right? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2002, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516/40 "2002-05-18T14:21:09Z")
Uncle Beer, [this site](http://www.local.ie/content/22798.shtml/about_ireland/society/general) has basic information about the structure of Ireland’s government and [here](http://www.iol.ie/~dluby/politics.htm) are links to all the parties’ home pages. In the last Dáil Sinn Féin held only one seat (Monaghan/Cavan). That one is safe; they’ve already won in Dublin South-West and official confirmation that they’ve won in Kerry North is just minutes away. Additionally they seem to be on course to win seats in Louth and Dublin South-Central. Fine Gael are getting _absolutely thrashed_. Unfortunately, the PDs are doing a lot better than Labour. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-general-election/109516.md?page=3)