# Irish/Ireland question. Tradition turned inside out or has the dolphin been duped? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 17, 2003, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969 "2003-03-17T11:44:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/1 "2003-03-17T11:44:27Z")
Where o where to post this thread??? Mods: Please move if I’ve guessed incorrectly where to put it. Doesn’t seem to me like it is MPSIMS but then again, I’m sure to some people it would be. There might be a factual answer to it… What do I call it??? Another dilemma. Sheesh. Just way to much thinking required here to ask this question… About 5 or 6 years ago, a good friend of mine who is a genealogist and has done extensive research in many different locations through out the world for many years (I’m saying I think she might know what she’s talking about) told me something that I’d never heard before, nor have I found anything on it since. She said that since my Irish ancestors came from Armagh, Ulster, Ireland (Northern Ireland), that by my wearing green on St. P. Day it is actually a slap in their face rather then showing my pride for being part Irish. She said that it has to do with the division between the two major religions in the country, and went on explaining it in such great, deep detail I got totally lost and don’t remember any more of it then what I’ve just said. She said that if I wanted to truely be proud of my Irish heritage, being from the North, I should wear orange instead of green. So, all you world travelled teeming millions, you Irish residents, you Irish men and Lasses… what say you? Is she misinformed? Is this true? Or is there some other explanation… you know, something not so black/white??? ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/2 "2003-03-17T11:49:25Z")
I thought the wearing of the Orange was a Protestant tradition in Northern Ireland, not pertaining to the whole population there. There are Catholics in Northern Ireland – I can’t see _them_ wearing the colours of William of Orange and the Orangemen, surely? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/3 "2003-03-17T11:57:12Z")
Ice Wolf is basically correct. If your ancestors were Protestants, they would probably be wearing orange instead of green today. But you can’t assume they were Protestant just because they were from Armagh, as the county has always had a substantial Catholic population. Even if they were, though, why should that stop you wearing green? Your ancestors were from Ireland, your heritage is Irish. You’ve every right to celebrate that by wearing whatever colour you want. ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/4 "2003-03-17T11:59:33Z")
I’m with you **Ice Wolf**. I can’t fathom that either. I readily admit my knowledge of Ireland and Irish History is meager. I have a lot to learn about a lot of things 🙂 It seemed to me she was saying the Protestants _only_ lived in the north and the Catholics _only_ lived in the south. I really want to go to Ireland some day, but haven’t been there yet, so I couldn’t say for certain, but I thought the two denominations reside throughout the country. Yes? No? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/5 "2003-03-17T12:02:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cadolphin \* > \*\*I thought the two denominations reside throughout the country. Yes? No? \*\* The South is overwhelmingly Catholic, but the North is fairly close to equally split, with Protestants forming a slight majority. ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/6 "2003-03-17T12:10:16Z")
That makes it clearer **ruadh**. Someone else did the research “across the seas” on that line, so my personal research for them has been limited to South Carolina, USA…which is a challenge in and of itself. Ya gotta love what the civil war did to records. So, I’ve never seen, or heard anything about church records for them so I have no idea what denomination they were. Just for the record, I do almost always do what I dang well want to, and since green speaks to the populace, I go with it. Not to mention I look good in some shades of green but look terrible in all shades of orange 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Davebear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Davebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Davebear)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/7 "2003-03-17T12:14:54Z")
I think your friend is a little off track. It’s supposed to be a day to celebrate being Irish, not to fight a religious war. Religion aside, green is the color associated with Ireland, as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/8 "2003-03-17T12:15:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cadolphin \* > \*\*Not to mention I look good in some shades of green but look terrible in all shades of orange \*\* Doesn’t everyone? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/9 "2003-03-17T12:18:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ruadh \* > \*\*Doesn’t everyone? 😉 \*\* YES! 😃 I just googled Baile Átha Cliath … I gather it translates to: Ireland/County Dublin/Dublin. Is that correct? Is that Celtic? \*\* Davebear\*\* I think ya nailed it! lol ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/10 "2003-03-17T12:23:51Z")
I’d go ahead and wear th’ green, **Cadolphin**. In agreement with **Davebear** – the land _is_ known as The Emerald Isle, is it not? 🙂 I have Protestant Irish ancestors from Northern Ireland myself – but I’d still wear the green. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/11 "2003-03-17T12:27:11Z")
It’s the Irish Gaelic (one of the Celtic family of languages) name for the City of Dublin. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/12 "2003-03-17T12:29:12Z")
Historically, what is now ‘the South’ did have a substantial Protestant minority. The point is that neither population was evenly distributed and that the ratio between them has varied in different ways in different areas over the past two centuries. You’ll might find this page useful. [http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/protestants\_1861\_1991.html](http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/past/protestants_1861_1991.html) ---
**Author:** ![Iteki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eada6e/32.png) [@Iteki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iteki)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/13 "2003-03-17T12:41:51Z")
Your friend is muddled. Whether your Irish roots are protestant or catholic is completly irrelevant to be honest, go with whatever you identify yourself as it’s only for fun anyhow. You can probably get a _little_ clearer idea of what “flavour” your roots are by saying what your surname is. Either way, skip the orange. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/14 "2003-03-17T12:44:40Z")
I should point out that even far-Unionist nutter Ian Paisley voted in favour of St. Patrick’s day becoming a public holiday in Northern Ireland. Why not wear the tricolour, and then you can cover all bases? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/15 "2003-03-17T12:56:53Z")
My maiden name is PRATT and have always been told they came from Ireland, although I haven’t been able to break past a wall in 1791 in South Carolina. The line that I’m referring to is SHEARER. They left Ireland for the US in… hmmm, \ my genealogy is on my desktop in the other room as I’m on the laptop in the bedroom with Shae sleeping on my lap. It was the very early 1700s but I can’t remember the exact year. **APB** , thank you for the link. It’s very interesting. **jjimm** an interesting idea. One I’ve never thought of 🙂 I’ve got plenty of green to choose from…and white, but I don’t own one single clothing item that is orange. SHOPPINGGGGGG… alas, my little Shae is way to weak to be left alone so no shopping for me today as **Rico** has to go to work today and can’t stay home with her. Kathy (or should I admit it’s really Kathleen :D) ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/16 "2003-03-17T13:00:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjimm \* > **I should point out that even far-Unionist nutter Ian Paisley voted in favour of St. Patrick’s day becoming a public holiday in Northern Ireland.** That’s because his family thinks Paddy was a Prod. [Link](http://www.newsletter.co.uk/fullnews.asp?DJID=8809). Don’t think they’d be too keen on your idea about the tricolour though 😃 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/17 "2003-03-17T14:06:56Z")
It’s not so odd that a Protestant like Ian Paisley should be a booster of St. Patrick- remember, Dublin’s oldest and largest cathedral is St. Patrick’s, and it’s a PROTESTANT church! Patrick was the man who Christianized Ireland, after all, so even Protestants deem him worthy of honor. - Of course, even if you’re an American Protestant of Irish descent, wearing Orange wouldn’t really be a tribute to your ancestry. William of Orange wasn’t Irish, after all- and neither was James II, the Catholic king he defeated at the Boyne! A Dutchman defeats a Scotsman, and the Irish STILL get excited, as if they had a real stake in whichever foreign S.O.B. got to rule over them. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/18 "2003-03-17T16:36:40Z")
Don’t wear orange. It has connotations with the Orange Order that are much more negative than any wearing of the green could have. Look here’s how it is. Protestants are in general Unionists, and are descended from Scottish planters in the 1600s. Catholics are in general Nationalists, and are descended from the indigenous population of Northern Ireland. But it’s more complicated than that. Religion does not equal political persuasion. Charles Stewart Parnell, Wolfe Tone and Daniel O’Connell were all prominent Nationalists, and all Protestant. In the North they cannot ask political persuasion on a government census, only religious affiliation. I am therefore forced to answer “other”. My father’s family is Protestant, and has been as Nationalist as is gets for 4 generations (not Republican, NATIONALIST). Hence my username. Wear an Irish rugby shirt, and wave a tricolour if you want to, your ancestors political affiliation should have no bearing. And you shouldn’t try to second guess it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Honeydew\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e19b73/32.png) [@Honeydew\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honeydew_1)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/19 "2003-03-17T16:58:19Z")
Just enjoy Patricks Day and don’t get bogged down with religion/politics… its caused way too much trouble already… If your ancestry is Irish - then wear green if ya fancy is what I say !!! ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969/20 "2003-03-17T17:08:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by irishgirl \* > \*\*Wear an Irish rugby shirt, … \*\* Excellent idea. The Irish rugby team represents the whole island irrespective of political or sectarian considerations. Even so, the Northern Ireland football (soccer) team wears green jerseys too, not orange. If you wore orange today it would surely look like a political statement of a very unwelcome kind. Promise me you won’t drink any green beer though, 'cos that’s a really stupid idea IMHO. Beer should be beer coloured (i.e. black & white today ;)). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-ireland-question-tradition-turned-inside-out-or-has-the-dolphin-been-duped/161969.md?page=2)