# irish jews **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 12, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278 "2003-09-12T20:33:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/21 "2003-09-13T21:53:50Z")
Unbloody awful. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Lu\_abu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@An\_Lu\_abu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Lu_abu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/22 "2003-09-13T22:20:01Z")
Dublin has a synagogue…Chaim Herzog, former premier of Israel was born in Ireland. Current Irish political affairs programs commonly feature Irish born Jews who have emigrated to Israel being interviewed on their feelings on the peace process. Jewish people play important roles in Irish public life: PUBLIC PERSONALITIES: Following the 1992 General Election, three Jewish representatives were elected to Parliament - Mr. Mervyn Taylor, T.D. Minister for Equality and Law Reform. Mr. Ben Briscoe, T.D. Mr. Alan Shatter, T.D. (Zach’s note: T.D. stands for “Teachta Dála”, pronounced “ty-OCH-ta DAW-la”, which means “Delegate of the Dáil”, or Parliament) Temple Bar, an area of Dublin was by reputation named after a prohibition on Jews entering shops in the area. However, I think that this is incorrect. I don’t know if this helps with your question- there are Irish citizens who are Jewish, but I don’t know if they consider themselves Irish but Jewish by religion, or Jewish by nationality. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/23 "2003-09-13T23:14:28Z")
The Temple Bar in Dublin has nothing to do with Judaism. It is named after the Templars, a medieval religious and military order. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/24 "2003-09-13T23:26:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by An Lú abú \* > \*\*I don’t know if this helps with your question- there are Irish citizens who are Jewish, but I don’t know if they consider themselves Irish but Jewish by religion, or Jewish by nationality. \*\* All the Jewish Irish people I’ve ever met consider themselves Irish nationals with Jewish religion. This is almost certainly because there’s no such thing as Jewish nationality… 😕 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Lu\_abu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@An\_Lu\_abu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Lu_abu)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/25 "2003-09-13T23:32:26Z")
Actually, it’s possible that the temple bar name was derived from either the pre-existing Temple Bar in London, or from William Temple who was provost of Trinity College. Dublins Temple Bar first appears in 1673 on maps. I haven’t found a reference to the Knights Templar. from:[http://homepage.tinet.ie/~seanjmurphy/irhismys/templars.htm](http://homepage.tinet.ie/~seanjmurphy/irhismys/templars.htm) . It would be tempting to assume that Dublin’s Temple Bar, which is located mainly in St Andrew’s Parish, marked a substantial Templar precinct in the city, but the balance of evidence indicates that this was not the case. The street name Temple Bar appeared only in the late seventeenth century, and was both an imitation of the London name and a reference to the Temple family who were major property owners in the area. Yet it might be rash to rule out completely any Templar resonances in the naming of Dublin’s Temple Bar. (4) from [http://www.britishexpat.com/travelfun/dublin.htm](http://www.britishexpat.com/travelfun/dublin.htm) 11) The Temple Bar area is so called because it housed the first Jewish temple built in Ireland. The word ‘bar’ refers to the refusal of Catholics to allow the Jewish to enter any of the adjoining commercial premises. ---
**Author:** ![Fifteen\_Iguana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Fifteen\_Iguana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fifteen_Iguana)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/26 "2003-09-13T23:49:45Z")
Glad you asked that. This week I saw a concert by Paddy Graber. Paddy was born in Ireland and his mother was a Sephardic Jew whose family had lived there for many generations. His father, if I recall correctly, was first generation Irish-Jewish. Paddy has lived an amazing life - lived in Ireland long enough to develop a brogue, then moved to China (his father was one of Sun Yat Sen’s bodyguards), joined WWII at age 14, recovered from injuries in what is now Israel (where he learned to read!), moved to Canada, became a miner, got blacklisted for union work, etc. etc. Plus he sings traditional songs, writes his own, and tells traditional stories. If I worked for the Canadian Film Board I would just point a camera at the guy and two hours later I would have a documentary. By the way, someone asked him if he was related to the famous Jewish mayor of Ireland. A cousin on his mother’s side, he explained, and added “Practically all of Ireland’s Jews are related,” which makes sense, I guess. You can read more about him: [http://www.stolaf.edu/people/hend/VictoryMusic/LivingTraditions.html](http://www.stolaf.edu/people/hend/VictoryMusic/LivingTraditions.html) Fifteen Iguana ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/27 "2003-09-14T00:09:57Z")
I just skimmed through the first several chapters of Louis Hyman’s _The Jews of Ireland_. If the Temple Bar appears on Dublin maps as early as 1673, that predates the establishment of the first Jewish temple in Dublin. Although Jews were readmitted to England and Ireland by royal decree in 1660, there is a nearly complete lack of any evidence of congregational activity among the handful of Jews who settled soon afterward in Dublin. Hyman’s book has no mention of Temple Bar being associated with Judaism; so it is likely that any such association is by folk etymology and non-historical. As mentioned before, Dublin’s Temple Bar was probably named with a double meaning: in imitation of London’s Temple Bar, a pillar marking the western limit of London (which in turn was named after the Templars, who once owned the property); and after the Temple family, who owned the land in Dublin. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Lu\_abu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@An\_Lu\_abu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Lu_abu)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/28 "2003-09-14T00:51:44Z")
sorry, **jjim** , I should have said that I was unsure whether Irish Jews consider themselves predominantly Jewish by culture or Irish by culture. However, I believe that many worldwide Jews consider themselves Israeli citizens regardless of birth citizenship. I stand to be corrected! ---
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/29 "2003-09-14T01:24:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by An Lú abú \* > \*\*However, I believe that many worldwide Jews consider themselves Israeli citizens regardless of birth citizenship. I stand to be corrected! \*\* Just because someone is Jewish does not necessarily mean that they are Israeli citizens. I suspect what you may be referring to is the “Law of Return”, which Israel passed soon after becoming independent. The law simply states that anyone who is Jewish can immigrate to Israel and be granted an Israeli citizenship. It does not say that a Jewish person from another country is automatically granted Israeli citizenship upon birth. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/30 "2003-09-14T01:27:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spogga \* > \*\*DOCCATHODE: Have you ever tasted regular haggis? > If not, don’t, it’s bloody awful…God only knows what kosher haggis would taste like!!! > > ☹ > ;j \*\* There would only be two differences- No dairy products. As Walloon says, no blood. You’d still have sheep lungs, liver, etc and oatmeal all wrapped up in a sheep stomach. With taters and neeps on the side! ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/31 "2003-09-14T01:28:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spogga \* > \*\*DOCCATHODE: Have you ever tasted regular haggis? > If not, don’t, it’s bloody awful…God only knows what kosher haggis would taste like!!! > > ☹ > ;j \*\* Having tasted “regular” haggis, I’d wager that kosher haggis couldn’t possibly taste worse. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/32 "2003-09-14T01:44:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FriarTed \* > \*\*dropsman- I have met Jews who believed that. \*\* It’s MY theory! They can’t have it! Anyhow, it explains so much in a halfassed, superficial way, from why Joyce chose a Jew for the protagonist of the Great Irish Novel to a mutual love of corned beef (does anybody in Ireland actually eat it?) to shared surnames like Cohen (alas, mitochondrial DNA demonstrates that the Irish Cohens, Coens, and Cowans are not of the rabbinical line–a major setback for my theory). ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/33 "2003-09-14T04:01:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\*That brings up the famous anecdote about Yogi Berra, the American baseball star. Years ago, a teammate was reading the paper, saw an article about Robert Briscoe, and said, “Hey Yogi, did you see this? A Jew just became mayor of Dublin.” > > And Yogi replied, famously, “Only in America!” > > Another famous Irish Jew: Israeli politician Chaim Herzog was from Ireland, and spoke with a noticeable brogue. > > Of course, the most noteworthy Irish Jew of all is fictional: Leopold Bloom, the protagonist of James Joyce’s “Ulysses.” \*\* I’m sure ol’ Yogi was referring to Dublin, California. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/34 "2003-09-14T11:38:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Atreyu \* > Just because someone is Jewish does not necessarily mean that they are Israeli citizens. > > I suspect what you may be referring to is the “Law of Return”, which Israel passed soon after becoming independent. The law simply states that anyone who is Jewish can immigrate to Israel and be granted an Israeli citizenship. It does not say that a Jewish person from another country is automatically granted Israeli citizenship upon birth. Nitpick - you have to prove you were born of a Jewish _mother_. Someone born to a couple where the father is Jewish and the mother is not would NOT fall under the “Law of Return”. Although they might share may cultural traits with Jews-by-religion, and will certain experience anti-Semitism at the same rate as Jews-by-religion, under Jewish law that are not, in fact, Jews but rather Gentiles. Really, we almost need three new terms - Jew-by-religion, Jew-by-descent, and Jew-by-descent-AND-religion. Maybe even a fourth - Jew-by-Choice (converted, that is) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/35 "2003-09-14T12:23:24Z")
Yeah, certainly. It’s a basic pot luck type of thing: usually lamb but can be beef, along with vegetables, onion, all the usual stuff… Oh. Irish _jew_. Sorry. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![MonkeyMensch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@MonkeyMensch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MonkeyMensch)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/36 "2003-09-14T16:22:25Z")
Since when do irish jews wear Australian hats? ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/37 "2003-09-14T22:45:04Z")
Jews were driven out of Limerick in 1904 in what history records as the only pogrom to take place in Ireland, although nobody was killed or injured. A Redemptorist preacher whipped up the people against the local Jewish population citing the old blood slander of the ritual murder of Christian children as true. In general, the influence of the tiny Jewish community in Irish public life argues against any pervasive anti-Semitism, although I have come across plenty of casual anti-Semitism from Irish people who probably have met few if any Jews in their lives. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278/38 "2003-09-14T22:47:58Z")
I seem to remember there was a Jewish Irish international footballer (that’s soccer) many years ago. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-jews/201278.md?page=1)