# irish names **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 21, 2000, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940 "2000-09-21T02:01:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![justice-chi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c89c15/32.png) [@justice-chi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justice-chi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/1 "2000-09-21T02:01:59Z")
what does the prefix “o” such as o’connel mean in irish names? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/2 "2000-09-21T02:24:47Z")
og means young. o’connel is young connel or connel’s child. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/3 "2000-09-21T02:34:00Z")
Ó originally meant grandson but has more changed to mean descendant of. With the decline of the Irish language a lot of families dropped the ó. My family name is Byrne but used to be Ó’Byrne. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/4 "2000-09-21T19:35:24Z")
Another one…what does **kil** mean in names (like my own surname)? ---
**Author:** ![Phobos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Phobos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phobos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/5 "2000-09-21T19:42:29Z")
IIRC, **kil** means church ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/6 "2000-09-21T19:53:37Z")
The word for church is _cill_, which is indeed anglicized as “kil”. However, Kil- in a surname comes from _giolla_ and means “follower of”. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/7 "2000-09-21T20:10:52Z")
To add a bit more to the O’ discussion: it mostly indicates a member of a particular sept or clan. The O’Byrnes were, as yohimbo says, decendants of someone named Byrne, but they take it as part of their name because he was a prominent man who was the leader of their sept. So a name like Fiach McHugh O’Byrne would read as: Fiach, son of Hugh, of the sept founded by Byrne. In the course of the forced anglicization in Ireland, most people adopted either their patronymic or their sept as their surname, and dropped the other. ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/8 "2000-09-21T20:19:59Z")
Hey ruadh refresh my memory. what is the -dara in Cill Dara (Kildare). IIRC isn’t it oak or oak grove? Something to do with Brigid also huh? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/9 "2000-09-21T20:34:46Z")
_dara_ is the genitive form of _dair_ which means oak. So Cill Dara = Church of the Oak. St Brigid founded her monastery there. ---
**Author:** ![Engineer\_Don](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e95f7d/32.png) [@Engineer\_Don](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Engineer_Don)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/10 "2000-09-21T21:28:31Z")
I got one for you - Does Fitz, as in Fitzsimmons, Fitzpatrick, etc. really mean decendent out-side of marriage? (i.e. bastard) I heard this somewhere but couldn’t check the source. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/11 "2000-09-21T21:35:31Z")
The Fitz thing, as far as I know, is supposed to derive from Norman French (like contemporary French “fils = son”) but I think I should leave the cleverer stuff to Ruadh, who seems to be a mine of information at this point. (NOT being sarcastic - being impresssed.) ---
**Author:** ![MikeG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikeg/32/4329_2.png) [@MikeG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeG)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/12 "2000-09-21T21:40:30Z")
My parents spoke Irish when I was very small but unfortunately I have retained none of it:( I’ll add it to the list after German (I’ll get paid to know it) ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2000, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irish-names/33940/13 "2000-09-21T21:48:54Z")
Thanks, Celyn 😉 I haven’t paid quite as much attention to Anglo-Norman naming practices as I have to Gaelic, but my understanding is that Fitz- was originally used for both legitimate and illegitimate children, and became an indication of illegitimacy only later on when the use of surnames became more widely adopted - a bastard son wouldn’t be given the proper family name, but would be called Fitz-whoever. Do not take my word for this, though.