# Irrational Fear of the Week: Trump Signs Executive Order Banning Mail-In Ballots. (Can He Do This?) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 21, 2020, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266 "2020-05-21T23:06:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/61 "2020-05-24T20:40:08Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > All of this is irrelevant. Executive orders can only direct the executive branch how to enforce law. Executive orders cannot make absentee voting illegal. Executive orders cannot make anything illegal or illegal, full stop. You will never see an executive order with verbiage to the effect of what shall be lawful or unlawful. > > Now… can the executive branch abuse their broad powers and issue illegal orders? Of course. Can they get away with it? Often they can. But it’s important that we never get confused about who decides what is legal and what isn’t. It’s not the executive branch. I’ve already addressed this. Mail-in ballots, by definition, go through the mail. Could Trump effectively order the state governments not to use mail-in voting? Probably not. They would refuse his order and he wouldn’t be able to enforce it. Could Trump order the Post Office not to deliver mail-in ballots? I think he could. I think if he gave the orders to the Post Office, it would be generally followed. It might be legally challenged and he might eventually lose in court. But I don’t think that would happen before the election was over and he got what he wanted. And when it’s all over, Trump issues himself a pardon and doesn’t face any consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/62 "2020-05-24T20:48:45Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Unfortunately, reality is quickly approaching **asahi** levels of incoherent blather.😃 I’ve argued with asahi in the past when he talks about martial law and cancelled elections and death camps. But saying the Republicans will break laws, take bribes, and cheat on elections? That’s not even a prediction; it’s just current events. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/63 "2020-05-24T21:41:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Could Trump order the Post Office not to deliver mail-in ballots? I think he could. I think if he gave the orders to the Post Office, it would be generally followed. I disagree that the Postal Service will go along with such an order. The thing is, postal voting is _really_ popular at the Post Office. There’s been a big drop in first class mail over the last 20 years, but one of the few (possibly the only) things that has countered this trend is the rise in mail-in voting. So the Postal Service sees it as an affirmation that they’re still an essential service. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/64 "2020-05-24T21:43:06Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve already addressed this. Mail-in ballots, by definition, go through the mail. > > Could Trump effectively order the state governments not to use mail-in voting? Probably not. They would refuse his order and he wouldn’t be able to enforce it. > > Could Trump order the Post Office not to deliver mail-in ballots? I think he could. I think if he gave the orders to the Post Office, it would be generally followed. It might be legally challenged and he might eventually lose in court. But I don’t think that would happen before the election was over and he got what he wanted. And when it’s all over, Trump issues himself a pardon and doesn’t face any consequences. I’ll agree with HMS Irruncible and friedo in that the president can’t just outright stop mail-in voting. Even if he had the direct legal authority to interfere in this way, it might actually be counter-productive to actually try following through with that idea. The reasons for not doing it range from immediate court challenges and injunctions to bad optics - people of all stripe wouldn’t like the thought of having their mail messed with. But that wouldn’t necessarily keep him from drafting or declaring an executive order is in effect, which would at minimum sow confusion. Even that would be risky, IMO, though the fact that it’s risky or that it would backfire wouldn’t keep him from actually trying it - never assume politicians behave rationally. My guess is that he’ll attempt something less dramatic but potentially just as effective - tactics such as withholding money from the USPS, withholding money from states with Democratic governors, “monitoring” polling stations, using the AG to threaten federal prosecution of community organizing - these are all easily doable. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/65 "2020-05-24T21:44:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve already addressed this. Mail-in ballots, by definition, go through the mail. You addressed this with a false argument. As I keep pointing out, Trump cannot make mail-in ballots illegal. I am speaking here to the narrow phrasing of making a given thing legal or illegal. Executive orders cannot do this, and any that are thusly phrased are obviously illegal and could be easily ignored or challenged. > [@](#): > > Could Trump order the Post Office not to deliver mail-in ballots? I think he could. I think if he gave the orders to the Post Office, it would be generally followed. You could think that, but you’re wrong unless you can show any plausible mechanism by which that might happen. The President doesn’t have direct control over the postal service like, say, the Department of Justice. This argument needs more than “Trump can do anything he wants and run the clock out in the courts.” Yes, we know he does that, the question is, does a plausible strategy for that exist in every given case? The answer is not always an automatic “yes”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/66 "2020-05-24T23:07:39Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You addressed this with a false argument. As I keep pointing out, Trump cannot make mail-in ballots illegal. I am speaking here to the narrow phrasing of making a given thing legal or illegal. Executive orders cannot do this, and any that are thusly phrased are obviously illegal and could be easily ignored or challenged. We’re talking about different things. You’re arguing about whether it would be legal or illegal. (I agree it would almost certainly be illegal.) I’m arguing about whether or not it would happen. This is the man who famously said he could shoot somebody in public and get away with it. He wasn’t saying it would be legal for him to murder somebody; he was just saying he could get away with doing something illegal. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You could think that, but you’re wrong unless you can show any plausible mechanism by which that might happen. The President doesn’t have direct control over the postal service like, say, the Department of Justice. The Post Office is controlled by a Board of Governors, who are appointed by the President subject to Senate approval. The board is supposed to have eleven members but the Trump administration hasn’t bothered keeping them filled. Four of the six current members have been appointed by Trump. The other two members, Obama appointees, have announced their retirements this month. So Trump already owns the board and he and the Senate have the option of appointing some more people whenever they choose to. Do you really believe the Post Office is some independent agency that Trump has no control over? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/67 "2020-05-24T23:21:56Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Uh huh. And there’s child molesters in the basement of a pizzeria too, right? Get a grip. Trump’s phone call to Ukraine was clearly criminal. He has probably committed treason with his Putin conversations. Dropping charges against Michael Flynn, who had pled guilty, is gross malfeasance. Trump and his inner circle are Alex Jones fans and have bought into fantasies like the pizza-shop sex dungeon. Several key associates of Trump have been convicted of felonies; the GOP is now brazenly bragging about its plans to subvert elections. Trump has encouraged lawbreaking against (and denied covid-19 aid to) Governors who don’t support him. The list goes on and on. He who needs to get a grip is the one who laughably compares Trump’s real crimes with the pizzeria fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/68 "2020-05-25T01:36:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We’re talking about different things. You’re arguing about whether it would be legal or illegal. (I agree it would almost certainly be illegal.) I’m arguing about whether or not it would happen. You specifically used the verbiage of legality in your original question, so that’s what I’m responding to. > [@Little Nemo](#): > > What happens if Trump orders them to discard any mail-in ballots that he’s declared are illegal? If he declares them illegal, this will be quickly and easily overruled in court because executive orders do not have any constitutional force to make law or declare anything illegal. This is an important point because it doesn’t involve any murky points of law. The president simply has no authority to do the thing that you said. But okay. If you want to discard the theory you raised, we can just argue the theory “he can just do stuff”. Fair enough. He has and he can. Let’s move onto that. > [@](#): > > So Trump already owns the board and he and the Senate have the option of appointing some more people whenever they choose to. Do you really believe the Post Office is some independent agency that Trump has no control over? I know the Post Office is an independent agency that is under much more indirect control of the President than most other executive agencies. I know it is self-financing. I know that Trump is obsessed with some Post Office Policies such as rates, and hasn’t done anything but tweet angrily about it. Does Trump have a wizard-like ability to corrupt agencies that seem above corruption? Sure. Am I willing to say he has the Post Office in his pocket and can do as he will? Given the current state of affairs, this seems like conspiracy-theory type of thinking, and I’d have to ask if you have anything beyond speculation on that front. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/69 "2020-05-25T02:46:46Z")
> [@](#): > > WASHINGTON — In October, President Trump declares a state of emergency in major cities in battleground states, like Milwaukee and Detroit, banning polling places from opening. > > A week before the election, Attorney General William P. Barr announces a criminal investigation into the Democratic presidential nominee, Joseph R. Biden Jr. > > After Mr. Biden wins a narrow Electoral College victory, Mr. Trump refuses to accept the results, won’t leave the White House and declines to allow the Biden transition team customary access to agencies before the Jan. 20 inauguration. > … What’s this? Chicken Little/Snowflake hypotheticals from the Dope c. 2017? Not exactly. They’re from today’s New York Times: \*\*Trump Sows Doubt on Voting. It Keeps Some People Up at Night. \*\* > **[Trump Sows Doubt on Voting. It Keeps Some People Up at Night. (Published 2020)](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/24/us/politics/trump-2020-election-voting-rights.html?smid=em-share)** > > A group of worst-case scenario planners — mostly Democrats, but also some anti-Trump Republicans — have been gaming out how to respond to various doomsday options for the 2020 presidential election. > [@](#): > > …Far-fetched conspiracy theories? Not to a group of worst-case scenario planners — mostly Democrats, but some anti-Trump Republicans as well — who have been gaming out various doomsday options for the 2020 presidential election. Outraged by Mr. Trump and fearful that he might try to disrupt the campaign before, during and after Election Day, they are engaged in a process that began in the realm of science fiction but has nudged closer to reality as Mr. Trump and his administration abandon longstanding political norms. > … Who’s irrational now? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/70 "2020-05-25T04:36:32Z")
For the sake of the argument (and putting aside whether it benefits the red or the blue), Trump orders ballots seized. This is done and someone carts them off while the law abiding are getting their injunction. Naturally, as it’s illegal the seizure is over-ruled and the ballots are ordered returned and counted. In the meantime, they have been “lost” or otherwise tampered with to benefit the Republicans - what happens then? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/71 "2020-05-25T08:11:42Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You specifically used the verbiage of legality in your original question, so that’s what I’m responding to. I didn’t say they would be illegal. I said Trump might declare them to be illegal. The former would require actual laws and court decisions. The latter would only require that Donald Trump be willing to say something that might not be true. Is your argument based on the premise that Trump wouldn’t tell a lie? > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > If he declares them illegal, this will be quickly and easily overruled in court because executive orders do not have any constitutional force to make law or declare anything illegal. What court would that be? Have you looked at the membership of the Supreme Court? Executive orders have been used by Presidents throughout our history. Washington used them. Lincoln used them. Franklin Roosevelt used them like crazy; he issued over three thousand of them. Are you saying that they’ve been illegal all this time and nobody noticed? > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Does Trump have a wizard-like ability to corrupt agencies that seem above corruption? Sure. Am I willing to say he has the Post Office in his pocket and can do as he will? Given the current state of affairs, this seems like conspiracy-theory type of thinking, and I’d have to ask if you have anything beyond speculation on that front. Did I say Trump has wizard-like abilities? No. Did I say Trump would need wizard-like abilities? No. Did I say that Trump has the power to appoint the people who control the Post Office and he has left several vacancies in those positions which he can fill when he wishes? Yes, I said that. I guess you couldn’t think of a good rebuttal to that last one so you went with the wizard stuff instead. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/72 "2020-05-25T11:20:10Z")
[Republican groups sue California over expanded mail-in voting](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/republican-groups-sue-california-over-expanded-mail-voting-n1214121) > [@](#): > > The Republican National Committee and other GOP groups filed a lawsuit against California Gov. Gavin Newsom on Sunday, arguing a move to expand mail-in voting during the pandemic is illegal. > > The suit, filed in federal court in the state’s eastern district, also names the California Republican Party and the National Republican Congressional Committee as plaintiffs. > > In a tweet announcing the suit, national committee chair Ronna McDaniel called Newsom’s executive order “radical” and a “recipe for disaster that would create more opportunities for fraud.” Not so irrational a fear, as it turns out. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/73 "2020-05-25T12:21:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Is your argument based on the premise that Trump wouldn’t tell a lie? I have been quite clear that if Trump says a certain type of mail is illegal, this is a flimsy legal theory that would be easily shot down in court because it is transparently unconstitutional for him to declare anything legal or illegal. > [@](#): > > What court would that be? Have you looked at the membership of the Supreme Court? Probably a Federal circuit court, where Trump has lost most cases where he sues or has been sued. > [@](#): > > Executive orders have been used by Presidents throughout our history. Washington used them. Lincoln used them. Franklin Roosevelt used them like crazy; he issued over three thousand of them. Are you saying that they’ve been illegal all this time and nobody noticed?.. :rolleyes: Please quote where I said that, and/or stop this lame practice of putting words in my mouth. > [@](#): > > I guess you couldn’t think of a good rebuttal to that last one so you went with the wizard stuff instead. Strawman arguments merit no rebuttal. I’ll restate my position one final time. Trump can state whatever he likes in an executive order and attempt to enforce it. If he predicates it on a flimsy legal theory that a currently lawful practice (such as absentee voting) is now illegal, that theory is so obviously unconstitutional that it will be rapidly challenged and defeated in court. As an example, look at what happened with his travel bans. Those were considerably more complicated and still got shot down rapidly. If you want to argue that thesis, or bring your own thesis, fine, but I’m done with your evading debate by emitting a cloud of insincere questions. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/74 "2020-05-25T13:21:17Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > For the sake of the argument (and putting aside whether it benefits the red or the blue), Trump orders ballots seized. This is done and someone carts them off while the law abiding are getting their injunction. > Naturally, as it’s illegal the seizure is over-ruled and the ballots are ordered returned and counted. > In the meantime, they have been “lost” or otherwise tampered with to benefit the Republicans - what happens then? I think what friedo and Irruncible are asking is, by what mechanism can anyone other than the USPS just seize mailed ballots? Moreover, the USPS won’t just automatically respond directly to an order by the President. I suppose they could seize ballots through the Postmaster General and the Board, who are appointed by the president, and who could (maybe, not sure) direct the activities of the postal inspectors, but I’m thinking that they would personally be coming close to breaking postal regulations and federal laws if they did (I am not a lawyer, but I believe friedo is, so he could clarify). It would be far easier to play games with funding and threaten the organizations that are coordinating voting efforts of all types, including but not limited to mail-in voting. I see that coming, actually. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/75 "2020-05-25T13:23:16Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > [Republican groups sue California over expanded mail-in voting](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/republican-groups-sue-california-over-expanded-mail-voting-n1214121) > > Not so irrational a fear, as it turns out. This should be dismissed unless they can demonstrate that it violates California statutes - states, not the fed, have the power to manage their own voting processes. There’s no federal statute I know of that prohibits the USPS from being used to vote unless fraud is suspected. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/76 "2020-05-25T13:28:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Did I say Trump has wizard-like abilities? No. > > Did I say Trump would need wizard-like abilities? No. Let me just point out the obvious here… when I mention Trump’s talent for finding ways to corrupt people and institutions, I was preemptively conceding a point of argument to you. Yes, he does have that talent, yes at times I find it almost wizard-like, yes I agree it shouldn’t be underestimated. It’s odd that instead of gracefully accepting that concession, you want to pick at the verbiage a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/77 "2020-05-25T13:35:19Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > YIf he declares them illegal, this will be quickly and easily overruled in court because executive orders do not have any constitutional force to make law or declare anything illegal. This is an important point because it doesn’t involve any murky points of law. The president simply has no authority to do the thing that you said. Agreed, but with a caveat. He could declare mail-in voting to be illegal, and then AG Barry could add some federal muscle behind the declaration, with messaging directed at specific populations that have faced political and legal harassment (i.e. people of color). Not saying it would happen, but that is a very real possibility. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/78 "2020-05-25T14:01:53Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > For the sake of the argument (and putting aside whether it benefits the red or the blue), Trump orders ballots seized. This is done and someone carts them off while the law abiding are getting their injunction. > Naturally, as it’s illegal the seizure is over-ruled and the ballots are ordered returned and counted. > In the meantime, they have been “lost” or otherwise tampered with to benefit the Republicans - what happens then? Here’s an article entitled [How Donald Trump Could Steal The Election](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/coronavirus-election/608989/) that steps through the numerous scenarios by which he could try to steal the election. I will summarize it by pointing out 2 things: 1. The list of contingent outcomes is large, and many of them rest on actions in Congress and state legislatures. These outcomes are out of his hands and introduce a degree of uncertainty that I don’t think Trump would find worth risking. 2. Running out the clock does not work in this scenario. If the presidential election has not been certified by Congress on January 20th, 2020, Trump’s presidential term is over. By the constitutional line of succession, the office devolves on the Speaker of the House, now held by Nancy Pelosi. Again, I’m not in Trump’s head, but I can’t imagine that he wants this to happen. In short… the 2020 election is where the “run out the clock” strategy favors Biden, not Trump. Control rests with Congress and the state legislatures, not Trump. It’s true that a cornered wounded animal will do anything, but I cannot see Trump or the Republicans pursuing a path that takes that introduces so many unknowns that they don’t control. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/79 "2020-05-25T14:09:17Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Agreed, but with a caveat. He could declare mail-in voting to be illegal, and then AG Barry could add some federal muscle behind the declaration, with messaging directed at specific populations that have faced political and legal harassment (i.e. people of color). Not saying it would happen, but that is a very real possibility. For in-person voting, voter intimidation is a very real factor in every election. I think mail-in voters are a lot more protected from this because it’s done anonymously from the home. That protection is probably a big factor in Trump’s hatred of voting by mail. ---
**Author:** ![ArtBeforeScience](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@ArtBeforeScience](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArtBeforeScience)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266/80 "2020-05-25T21:10:34Z")
I think it’s highly likely that Trump will make a serious attempt at disrupting the electoral process, and I don’t know what I personally am going to to about it. Keeps me up at night for sure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-fear-of-the-week-trump-signs-executive-order-banning-mail-in-ballots-can-he-do-this/854266.md?page=5)