Yeah, interfering with postal delivery is a federal crime. There could be state statutes like theft that might apply, but that would apply to things like stealing a parcel sitting on someone’s front porch. Destroying mail would involve federal prosecution. Not a lawyer but I think state authorities would get involved only if there was some crime believed to be in progress.
So, if both the postmaster general and the DOJ both give a USPS employee instructions on how to handle the mail, then they would have no other authority to look to for a contradictory view, correct?
Will they do this? I hope not, but I’m past pinning the future of our country on something as nebulous as hope.
Can they do this? I’m really not seeing any reason why they cannot.
And this isn’t just speculation on our part, Trump is the one who brought it up and making threats about preventing mail-in ballots.
Comparisons to paranoia that republicans had about Obama are not valid, as Obama never made any such threats. The things that they accused Obama of doing were things that they created out of whole cloth in their own imaginations. The things that we are concerned about Trump doing are things that he has said he will do.
I don’t know. That’s why my post was phrased in the form of a question.
Are there state laws that govern the treatment of ballots? That was the question. I’m not asking about mail in general.
For instance, a quick search shows this Arizona law which includes:
**10. Knowingly destroys a polling list, ballot or ballot box with the intent to interrupt or invalidate the election.
11. Knowingly detains, alters, mutilates or destroys ballots or election returns.**
My paranoid fear is this:
The oft-repeated claim that mail-in ballots are not secure has a significant portion of the voting public believe that it is (or at least could be) true. Given a choice, they go to their local polling place to vote in person in order to safeguard their ballots.
If they use a paper ballot, their vote is likely to be at least as safe as a mail-in ballot. However if they use a voting machine this may not be true.
I am hoping that the idea the GOP may hack voting machines is indeed paranoia. But at this stage of the game…
I find it hard to believe this would be a secret for long. Such efforts would probably be exposed and revealed almost immediately, but they would cause people to lose faith in the system: Did my vote get counted? Did yours? Did my Facebook friends votes’ count? Democracy depends in no small part on confidence. As others have pointed out, liberals aren’t the only ones who would vote by mail. Conservatives would have those same concerns and grievances if their party loses.
I think there could come a point when Trump and the Republicans say “Shit, it’s inevitable: we’re going to lose this election. We’re going to lose - unless we do something. Anything!” And at that point, the end game shifts from one in which they try to compete in and win a mostly legitimate election to one in which they scream voter fraud for months in advance and do whatever they can to legitimize illegitimate or even illegal behavior to rig an election and use the full weight of federal power to thwart opponents.
And would following the instructions of your supervisor, handed down from the postmaster general himself, to sort out ballots for special investigation fall under one of those?
You think that state cops are going to come in and raid the local USPS and arrest workers who complied with federal instructions.
And “just following orders” has to do with people committing genocide and working in death camps. There does come a time when you know that the order that you are being told to do is not just illegal, but a crime against humanity.
I doubt that we’ll get people pulled into the Hague because the sorted some mail according to policy.
And, as long as we are breaking all laws and conventions, it would not be all that hard to pass instructions for special handling of ballots in D leaning areas and to leave them alone in R strongholds.
Democracy depends on confidence, you are right, which is why the actions of this administration are an attack on democracy.
No matter how this election comes out in November, there is going to be a substantial continent of voters who do not believe that it is valid.
That’s a pretty bad blow to democracy.
Indeed, a bad blow to democracy, which is why the never Trumpers, the Romneys, the Howard Schultzes, the Bill Gates, the Warren Buffets, the exiled Republicans like Corker, Flake, and others have to speak out. In fact they need to do more than that; they must join the opposition even if it threatens their future standing or social status in right wing circles. They have to organize opposition against the president and the GOP and undermine them at every turn. They helped create this Frankenstein, and it’s really their responsibility as much as anyone to unplug him.
I don’t have expectations, but I am seeing more and more signs that lifelong conservatives are becoming fed up. Something needs to happen. The authoritarian right wing needs to be challenged in some meaningful way, both at the top and from underneath at the grassroots level. I think the grassroots movement has been building for some time, but there’s been really little or no high-level opposition that’s been able to stand up to Trump. Sens Flake and Corker have spoken out, but they got shoved right out of politics. Rep Justin Amash has spoken out but he’s running a delusional campaign as a libertarian. Even as an ideologue, you have to recognize there are times when you have to suspend ideology.
The time to form a strong opposition is now - before Trump takes what’s left of the guardrails protecting democracy away. If he gets another term, the American political system will be wrecked for years to come - maybe forever. And we’ll lose the economic and political clout that comes with what we’ve built. We’d even be subject to foreign manipulation in ways we can’t imagine - in ways we’ve been able to subject other countries to perhaps.
Maybe that’s the approach the Supreme Court will take.
“Mr Chief Justice, it is clear that this Executive Order by President Trump violates federal laws against interfering with ballots.”
“You’re right.”
“And furthermore… wait, did you just say I was right?”
“Yes.”
“Well… that’s great…”
“Glad I could help you with that.”
“Okay, so what happens now?”
“What do you mean?”
“You just declared it was illegal. What are you going to do about it?”
“I just did it. I interpreted the law for you and told you the President’s actions were illegal. It would be improper for me to do anything else. If you want somebody to enforce the law, you need to talk to somebody in the Executive Branch.”
“The Executive Branch…”
“Yes, something like this, you’re going to want to go all the way to the top. You call up the President and tell him I sent you.”
“And if you can’t get the president, talk to Mr. Barr. Dismissed. Next case!”
Mine was hyperbole to emphasize a point, but you do you.
Since “26” might imply a 26-24 split it might have been more genuous to describe the split as 26-22 favoring the Rs with 2 states (MI & PA) having an absolute majority for neither party. Sure, it’s the incoming Congress that votes, but the Ds are rather unlikely to pick up many seats if they don’t coast to general victory. Your own cite confirms this, writing “Not surprisingly, Democrats will have many vulnerable House seats in 2020, after winning a slew of seats in red and purple districts in 2018.”
Yes, you heard that right! With a 26-22 split favoring the R’s, and this likely to get worse in the relevant case, HMS Irruncible describes the possible House voting for President as “(Democratically controlled).”
I’m stumped as to how to even respond to that. 
This is going down pretty much the way I predicted it. As I said, not an outright banning of mail-in ballots, but just through plain ole funding and service cuts.
Congress and states are powerless to stop it, as are the courts.