# Irrational hate for a game console
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 23, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133 "2005-05-23T18:49:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/21 "2005-05-24T00:08:52Z")
> [@MacTech](#):
>
> (heh, aren’t us fanatical Mac users amusing? 😉 )
**Halo** is good, but it’s not _that_ good. 😉
(And after E3, I’m really hankerin’ for a PS3…)
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2005, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/22 "2005-05-24T00:39:19Z")
Since when have video game players been referred to as “jocks?”
Marc
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### Author:  [@BraheSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BraheSilver)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2005, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/23 "2005-05-24T01:04:43Z")
> [@MGibson](#):
>
> Since when have video game players been referred to as “jocks?”
That’s **Tabby\_Cat** ’s point, if I’m not mistaken. There’s a feeling going around that now that developers see more money in the “casual gamer” (frat boys, rappers, etc.) there will be fewer games made for the type of person who sinks 70 hours into a game and clustered in dimly-lit rooms to reminisce about the glory days of fighting Slimes. They’re considered the gaming equivalent of people who will watch nothing but Steven Segal movies because they like the explosions and consider everything else pseudo-intelligent crap. That’s an elitist view, but some _Grand Theft Auto_ and _Backyard Wrestling_ clones do fairly well despite not being “good games,”
which worries them.
Unless Tabby was talking about Robot Jox, in which case I have no comment. 😉
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/24 "2005-05-24T01:33:01Z")
I guess I just don’t share the concern of the OP. There are still plenty of excellent games being produced these days for all manner of gamers. I’ve bought more games for my PS2 then I ever did for my Sega, Sega CD, Sega Saturn, or my Nintendo 64. While I agree that they are targetting more of the casual gamers I see this as a good thing and not something to complain about. They’re still going to make games like Final Fantasy or those other games that take 80 hours to complete.
Marc
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### Author:  [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/25 "2005-05-24T02:55:27Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#):
>
> I hate the Sony PS line. I hate them because they pander to the “OMG IT’S IN 3D IT MUST BE GOOD” crowd and the “OMG IT’S GOT BLOOD IN IT ITS’ SO REALISTIC” crowd.
>
> But mostly, I hate them for causing the downfall of Sega’s hardware line. This is the first new generation of consoles without any Sega in it, and it really, really annoys me. I root for the Xbox, sometimes, just so that Sony could possibly falter just a bit, and their jock player base be ignored… but then I realise that the Xbox is even worse in jock-pandering.
>
> Now, there’s only Nintendo left… RIP Dreamcast.
>
> ☹
Business is like war, some will win, and some will not. Sega’s Saturn did have some 3d games (I doubt it’s full polygonal, though), but the problem for Saturn (which might be the same for any console) is:
1. Price
2. Lack of good games
3. Lack of developers willing to develop for the platform, leading to point 2
4. Lack of gamers buying the platform, hence developers more hesistant to develop games for the platform.
The same could be said for the Dreamcast, but the Gamecube is doing decently…and game-wise, they have some hits. (I really do want Tales of Symphonia and Ikaugra!)
Heaping all the blame on the “3d-loving” crowds is understandable. Heck, some games need not to be in 3d in the first place! Unfortunately, this how publishers want the way to go. 3d costs more to develop, and hence they have reasons to price game higher.
But blood? I don’t think I see much blood in PS2 games.
What Sega can do now is to do some great games. Their re-release of Golden Axe is a downright disgrace.
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### Author:  [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/26 "2005-05-24T03:01:10Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#):
>
> Also, Sony is generally reluctant to publish 2d games. Why? Again, the desire to appeal to the jock-masses, and no avoid having anything that’s “old fashioned”, regardless of actual gaming merit. (this isn’t GD, so I feel quite happy putting those statements out there. :D)
2D is dead, for the big consoles, but for mobile platforms it is thriving.
I have to agree with **Tabby\_Cat** that nowadays gaming seems to be all about the graphics, the lightning, the texturing, and publishers are only interested in releasing games that appeal to the mass market - such as MMORPG and FPS for the PC.
Some games do benefit from the shift to 3D. But I quite don’t understand people who can’t play old games because their “graphics” sucks. Nowadays I still get a kick out of NetHack…watching my “@” slashing up “D” and “o” and (z)apping my wand of magic missiles.
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### Author:  [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2005, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/27 "2005-05-24T03:11:48Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#):
>
> Parapa and the like aren’t really innovative - the BeMani / DDR line already did that. And it was by no means exclusive to the PS - Sega was willing to and did have these titles. I’m talking whole new concepts of gaming - the best example I can come up with for the PS is Katamari Damacy. But for every Katamari Damacy, the PS encourages 20 bland, “realistic” GTA/racing/FPS type games. Games like Katamari Damacy, La Pucelle are few and far between, and _it’s all Sony’s fault!_ _pout_
You’re just living in the wrong country.
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### Author:  [@Tabby\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tabby_Cat)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2005, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/28 "2005-05-24T07:45:37Z")
_looks at location_
I hate you too. :mad:
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### Author:  [@Arwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arwin)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2005, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/29 "2005-05-24T08:14:48Z")
> [@Tabby\_Cat](#):
>
> I hate the Sony PS line. I hate them because they pander to the “OMG IT’S IN 3D IT MUST BE GOOD” crowd and the “OMG IT’S GOT BLOOD IN IT ITS’ SO REALISTIC” crowd.
That has absolutely nothing to do with the Sony PS line, and absolutely everything with the way technology has developed. The Megadrive and the first Playstation were barely different in that respect, and both capable of significant numbers of sprites - but very clearly 3D was the way to go. Even Nintendo went that route.
> [@](#):
>
> But mostly, I hate them for causing the downfall of Sega’s hardware line. This is the first new generation of consoles without any Sega in it, and it really, really annoys me. I root for the Xbox, sometimes, just so that Sony could possibly falter just a bit, and their jock player base be ignored… but then I realise that the Xbox is even worse in jock-pandering.
Look, the Sega hardware line sucked, so what it means now is that Sega is producing games for all platforms, and you can run your Sega games on the best hardware available out there. What’s the problem with that? My only problem here is that I have yet to be wowed by a Sega game.
> [@](#):
>
> Now, there’s only Nintendo left… RIP Dreamcast.
Pff, I thought the Dreamcast was a lousy idea from day one. It was just a PC in a box, and not even an all that special one at that. Not that the Xbox wasn’t similar, but the Playstation 2 was something else.
> [@](#):
>
> ☹
Ah, you old whiner. You can emulate the sh\*t out of all the old 2D platforms, and there are plenty of games out there. Just go play Gods or Xenon II the Megablast on STeem, the awesome Atari ST emulator, or get an old Amiga somewhere and play the awesome Team 17 games like Alien, Superfrog, Fantasy Pinball and so on.
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### Author:  [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2005, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/30 "2005-05-24T08:28:12Z")
> [@rjung](#):
>
> **Halo** is good, but it’s not _that_ good. 😉
Y’know, it took me until now to realize why James Lileks thought **Halo** was the greatest goddamn game since dice were invented. He’s a Mac geek, and all the Mac geeks went crazy when **Halo** came out. :smack: I can be very dense.
[/hijack]
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### Author:  [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)
#### Post date: [May 25, 2005, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/31 "2005-05-25T00:13:14Z")
I have a somewhat irrational hatred for the GameCube. I mean, there’s stuff about it I honestly don’t like - the controller is downright silly, the game selection is pretty limited, they do things with a number of ‘classic’ series that I’m not particularly happy with (Mario Kart 64 was much better, ditto Starfox, even Zelda, Metroid and the main Mario line, though those games were still pretty decent… etc), and they generally pander to the type of people who get together and play Mario Party. That said, this IS the system that has Smash Bros, Ikaruga, Resident Evil 4, and a few other pretty damn good games. I should be passively indifferent to the Cube.
Instead, I hate it with an irrational passion and wish Nintendo would let the two systems that don’t suck duke it out, and maybe get some companies with a clue to help them on their franchises while they’re at it.
(of course, I fall into the category of people who uses his PS2 to play more PS1 games than what it’s meant for, and probably play more SNES games than any of the above. I’m DEFINITELY not who anyone is pandering to.)
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### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [May 25, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/32 "2005-05-25T00:16:56Z")
Eh. I prefer Playstation, and always will, although I do have a Gamecube as well (I traded my old PS and some games in for it). PS games have always seemed more mature, darker, and less appallingly, no, disgustingly, no, I can’t think of a good enough word, cute enough to make you puke games. (This coming from the person who loves her Mario Kart. :o )
You can pry my PS2 from my cold, dead, hands, especially since I may not be able to afford the PS3.
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [May 25, 2005, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/33 "2005-05-25T00:18:12Z")
I miss vector graphics. I still love my Vectrex.
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### Author:  [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)
#### Post date: [May 25, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/34 "2005-05-25T00:24:02Z")
I just can’t choose. I love my ps2 and game cube equally. I can’t go without Zelda and RE4 was a nice bonus. The playstation has Final Fantasy and Fatal Frame.
X-Box…meh. It may be the lack of established game series. I just don’t see the point.
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### Author:  [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)
#### Post date: [May 25, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/35 "2005-05-25T00:37:35Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#):
>
> I miss vector graphics. I still love my Vectrex.
🙂 I have fond memories of vector graphic games but I can’t honestly say I missed them.
I don’t really understand the fanboy mentality that makes some vehemently love or hate one system over another. Fanboys come with the territory when it comes to choices I guess. I’ve met farmers who hate anything that isn’t John Deere, bikers who hate anything non Harley Davidson, even people who think you can’t like Family Guy and Futurama at the same time.
At this point it looks like I’ll be getting a PS3 some time in the future. This doesn’t make me a fan boy I just think it looks like the best system as of right now. I’m glad Nintendo and Microsoft are in the console business and I wish Sega was still there. The way I see it, competetion is ultimately good for me as a consumer. Here are the gaming systems I’ve owned throughout the years and my satisfaction levels.
Atari (happy with this system)
Nintendo (NES) (happy with this system)
Sega Genesis, Sega CD, Sega Saturn (unhappy with the add ons)
Nintendo 64 (unhappy with this system)
Playstation 2 (happy with this system)
I’m looking forward to giving Nintendo and X-Box a fair shake at my dollars. Nintendo makes some pretty interesting looking games but not enough to justify a purchase. I don’t care if a game is cute or bloody just so long as it’s entertaining. If Nintendo wouldn’t mind putting games like Grand Theft Auto or Gods of War next to Zelda and Mario in their library I’d seriously consider purchasing from them.
Marc
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### Author:  [@Flying\_Ice\_Cream\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flying_Ice_Cream_Badger)
#### Post date: [May 25, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/36 "2005-05-25T01:27:19Z")
For some reason, Nintendo has been thought of lately as doomed. They’re far from it. Most people only look at US hardware sales numbers and conclude that Nintendo must be a distant third. However, when you look at worldwide sales, the Gamecube beat the Xbox, mostly thanks to its success in Japan.
Plus, you have to consider that Nintendo sells millions of copies of many of their games, and come out with new ones often. Since Sony and Microsoft don’t make their own games, they don’t get that line of profit. Overall Nintendo makes a pretty large profit every year. Admittedly it’s been declining, but they’re not even close to the danger zone.
Also, Microsoft actually LOSES money on their video games division. And lots of it. The only reason they’re still alive is the monstrous profits they make off Windows.
[Here’s my source](http://www.gamesarefun.com/gamesdb/editorial.php?editorialid=4)
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### Author:  [@Flying\_Ice\_Cream\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flying_Ice_Cream_Badger)
#### Post date: [May 25, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/37 "2005-05-25T01:32:48Z")
Woops, looks like I accidently exaggerated the amount of games Nintendo sells. I should’ve said that some of Nintendo’s more popular games sold over a million copies. Also of note is the fact that the gamecube has more million sold games than the Xbox.
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### Author:  [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)
#### Post date: [May 25, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/38 "2005-05-25T17:17:02Z")
> [@Flying Ice Cream Badger](#):
>
> Since Sony and Microsoft don’t make their own games, they don’t get that line of profit.
Actually, both Sony and Microsoft do have first-party titles, but they make up a much smaller percentage of their total releases than Nintendo’s first-party output. The recent \*\*God of War \*\* for the PS2 was made by Sony’s Santa Monica studio, for example. My game, **Warhawk** , is also first-party, although you wouldn’t think so at first glance since it’s being developed by Incognito in Salt Lake City. You’d have to know that Incognito is a Sony subsidiary to realize that it’s a first-party title as well.
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### Author:  [@Thirty-Nine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thirty-Nine)
#### Post date: [May 25, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/39 "2005-05-25T21:15:34Z")
IMO, this has been going on for a long time. The market has simply broadened to include young adults as well as kids. Remember the scores of abysmal ‘Kool Kid in Awesomeland’ style platformers that plagued the SNES and Genesis? I see those as the ancestors to the mediocre first person shooters crowding the market today.
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### Author:  [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)
#### Post date: [May 25, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irrational-hate-for-a-game-console/305133/40 "2005-05-25T23:59:53Z")
> [@Kiros](#):
>
> I have a somewhat irrational hatred for the GameCube…they generally pander to the type of people who get together and play Mario Party. That said, this IS the system that has Smash Bros, Ikaruga, Resident Evil 4, and a few other pretty damn good games. I should be passively indifferent to the Cube.
You can have my Mario Party when you pry the controller out of my cold, dead, increasingly calloused hands.
And Ikaruga was a Dreamcast game that finally made it to the 'Cube.
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