Where I live, the province pays welfare, which includes medical and dental, and the city provides geared-to-income housing.
The more kids you have, the more welfare funding you get, and the faster you move through the waiting list for geared-to-income housing (for example, the last time I checked – I am an adjudicator on a social housing tribunal – in my city the wait for geared-to-income housing for a single person apartment was a couple of years or more, whereas there was no wait at all for a seven person family house).
Now let’s weigh this against life as a low-level employee, never making more than minimum wage. You would work your ass off, but never be able to afford day care, or medical and dental care, let alone have a house for your family.
In short, in my city, a low functioning person who likes raising kids will have a better life popping out babies like a Pez dispenser and living off the system than working.
It all comes down to society ensuring that children do not suffer. The more children a welfare mom has, the more money, benefits and housing opportunities she will have. YMMV.
Obviously this is grossly unfair for the working poor, who bust their butts to make ends meet, but no matter how hard they work, they will not be as well of as a welfare mom with many children.
Alice: Arizona as a whole seems to have its head pretty square on its shoulders. A welfare system that isn’t totally disgusting AND avoiding being suckered into DST? Tell me something stupid about your state, quickly now, or I’m going to move there and you’ll have ME to deal with.
I used to work in a grocery store. Dog food wasn’t covered by welfare, as I politely informed one customer. She balked and said “I’ll be right back” and came back with a cart filled with several steaks. Fed that dog steak and her family got fresh lobster. I’ll never forget how much I hated that woman.
Many people have made the point that welfare can/should be tied to birth control, but I can see a sticky situation with that; at least one relatively popular religion in the US has some pretty strong prohibitions against it. Now you are kind of running into a freedom of religion thing too…
(yes, I know that most religions proscribing birth control would also proscribe sex out of wedlock.)
[QUOTE=ForumBot]
**Alice:**Tell me something stupid about your state, quickly now, or I’m going to move there and you’ll have ME to deal with.
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It’s going to be 101 degrees out tomorrow, how’s that?
[QUOTE=Donovan]
Many people have made the point that welfare can/should be tied to birth control, but I can see a sticky situation with that; at least one relatively popular religion in the US has some pretty strong prohibitions against it. Now you are kind of running into a freedom of religion thing too…
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Then rich Catholics like my family can get off their asses and provide for these women instead of expecting the government to do it. Actually, my family shouldn’t be able to say anything since they are opposed to welfare to start with. There aren’t enough rolleyes in the world.
[QUOTE=kung fu lola]
…If the kids were at least schooled outside the home, they would have the opportunity to go out in the world and meet mentors, like teachers or librarians or a Sensei at Judo class, who would give them what their parents don’t have the time to give. But they aren’t, from what I have seen of the Duggars they are one lone family against the world. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems as though they don’t even have Aunties & Uncles or Grandparents hovering around. It seems like emotional deprivation to me…
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The grandparents have appeared on the show, but I don’t remember any mention of either Jim Bob or Michelle having siblings. I agree that it’s not healthy for the children to socialize only with other family members. Nor is their habit of dividing the chores up along gender lines. One wonders what their children will do when they leave the nest (the oldest is over 18 now).
[QUOTE=alphaboi867]
The grandparents have appeared on the show, but I don’t remember any mention of either Jim Bob or Michelle having siblings. I agree that it’s not healthy for the children to socialize only with other family members. Nor is their habit of dividing the chores up along gender lines. One wonders what their children will do when they leave the nest (the oldest is over 18 now).
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Michelle has a sister who appeared on one of the television programs. Michelle, and her sister’s first child, were born within a month of each other. Ha. Ha ha. Ha. :dubious:
[QUOTE=featherlou] Quoth, you’re making some good points here. The welfare system obviously has flaws, and the answer is not obvious in any way. I personally think a shot of Depo-Provera when you come to pick up your cheque would go a long way, but can’t interfere with people’s reproductive “rights,” you know, in spite of the people we’re discussing being willing to do nothing more with their lives than act like brood mares.
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Just when I think hey, maybe I should check back in on the Dope, somebody has to go and give me the fucking Fear again. God damn you fucking people, that’s all I have to say. I no longer have any faith that you can be educated or reformed. You ignorant privileged sons of bitches ought to be first against the wall. You utter piece of shit, fuck you. That’s your focus? Welfare mothers? Holy christ, how totally stupid and pig ignorant can you be?
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison]
Just when I think hey, maybe I should check back in on the Dope, somebody has to go and give me the fucking Fear again. God damn you fucking people, that’s all I have to say. I no longer have any faith that you can be educated or reformed. You ignorant privileged sons of bitches ought to be first against the wall. You utter piece of shit, fuck you. That’s your focus? Welfare mothers? Holy christ, how totally stupid and pig ignorant can you be?
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[QUOTE=DianaG]
Except for women who can’t use hormonal birth control. What then? Diaphragm check?
[/QUOTE] jsgoddess’s idea of an IUD might be a good option. This gets into other problematic areas regarding abortion, though.
I’m not concerned with the religious aspect of it that Donovan mentions, because if the recipient is put on Depo, they can still use abstinence for birth control if they are really that worried about it.
I’m really not that worried about the social engineering issues…I think that welfare itself is social engineering. We manipulate the natural flow of society all the time. But I do agree that it would be hard to put into practice. With Depo or an IUD, you would not have to worry about incorrect use (ain’t modern technology grand)? If there is some failure due to fluke, then that’s an “act of God” and I wouldn’t suggest blaming the mother for it by not covering that child.
I do like everything Alice the Goon has mentioned that Arizona is doing…perhaps these would be better ideas to start with.
[QUOTE=Quartz]
Who knows? Shouldn’t they be given the chance, however remote? For each post-WW2 POTUS, how far back do you have to go to a poor ancestor?
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Instead of rewarding these baby making machines, why not take their children away? Isn’t having a bunch of children to raise on welfare a form of child abuse?The best chance for the children is to give them real parents who will teach them about working for wages.
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas]
Instead of rewarding these baby making machines, why not take their children away? Isn’t having a bunch of children to raise on welfare a form of child abuse?The best chance for the children is to give them real parents who will teach them about working for wages.
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I was going to say the same thing. If forcing them to take birth control is too much, then if they are on welfare and continue to have children they should be taken away. So you would have these choices:
Take welfare and take some kind of birth control
Take welfare and not take birth control. However, if you have more children while on welfare then you should have your children taken away
Don’t take welfare
The type of behavior exhibited by the woman in the OP, and the father too since he wasn’t in the dark about the situation, does nothing but harm the children and society at large. It shouldn’t be condoned by subsidizing their lifestyle.
