# IRS Tax Gap...why not hire a LOT more investigators?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 15, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495 "2005-04-15T16:41:04Z")
**Posts on this page:** 11
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495/21 "2005-04-17T22:34:45Z")
> [@beagledave](#):
>
> I guess an obvious question for me is…why don’t they hire a LOT more investigators.
Because hiring a lot of extra investigators who are as inept as the ones they have already would merely result in millions of obviously bogus bills, citizens receiving same howling for politicians’ blood, and not a lot more money coming in.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2005, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495/22 "2005-04-18T04:23:21Z")
> [@bare](#):
>
> It’s been a year of paperwork flurries through the mail, fax machine and phone, resulting in my having to pay to file for a hearing in Tax court a hundred and fifty miles distant.
I spoke to my brother. He says that if you had to file a petition with Tax Court, that means you should have already been through Appeals. He says that although he is willing to buy that Coor Audit at the Service center could be that wrong, and even a low level tax auditor- if you went and spoke to an Appeals Officer and still had to file a Tax Court Petition, there is something you’re not telling us. Like, for instance- someone else is claiming that same dependent. They also just don’t “after 14 years, they questioned the existence of one of my children”- unless the SSN is questionable somehow, or again- someone else is claiming that same child.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495/23 "2005-04-18T04:27:49Z")
> [@Steve MB](#):
>
> Because hiring a lot of extra investigators who are as inept as the ones they have already would merely result in millions of obviously bogus bills, citizens receiving same howling for politicians’ blood, and not a lot more money coming in.
That quote leads to a problem with "Maryland department of revenue ", not the IRS. The IRS is \*reasonably \*fair, and _reasonably_ compentant at the Professional level.
In general- the IRS brings in $10 for every one spent at the enforcement level. I will admit I don’t expect a groundswell of support to raise the budget for the IRS.
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### Author:  [@bare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bare)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2005, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495/24 "2005-04-18T04:51:10Z")
DrDeth, I beg to differ with you and your brother. I was told to either send the IRS a bunch more money or file for tax court around November last year, which I did, after which I went through the whole same rigamarole with an appeals officer. My court date was scheduled for mid May, but as I indicated, I was successful without going that far, although the court still has to sign off on the agreement.
I have claimed my son for the last 15 years and no one else ever has.
Do me a favor though and ask your brother if I can expect my filing fees for the court to be returned, since they cashed the check long ago.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2005, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495/25 "2005-04-18T05:08:45Z")
> [@bare](#):
>
> Do me a favor though and ask your brother if I can expect my filing fees for the court to be returned, since they cashed the check long ago.
He said to consult a Tax Professional. It’s complex. He went on about "prevailing parties’ and “substantially prevailed” and MEGO. (Me Eyes Glazed Over). In general, you must apply within 90 days. He also said “it’s _deminimus_” which is latin legal speak for “don’t bother, it’s not worth it”.
He is doubtful about your case, but he does say “that any time you need to go to Tax Court, you need to hire a Tax professional, and if you had done so, you wouldn’t have had the problem”. I said that in normal cases, an ordinary dude shouldn’t have to hire a Tax Professional- he replied that clearly this case 'wasn’t ordinary". Well, he is a tax professional, so you can’t blame him, I guess. He doesn’t mind having me grill him for free advice to post here, so he isn’t such a bad dude, even though I have to put up with lots of eye rolling and groans. Thank goodness we have one of those ‘family free plans’ with our cell phones…
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### Author:  [@bare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bare)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495/26 "2005-04-18T05:22:10Z")
Yeah, I rather figured they wouldn’t give it back without another six inches of paperwork.
I can understand why he would suggest hiring a tax consultant, but bedamned if I can’t answer direct queries with direct answers. Every document they asked for that I could provide, I provided by return mail. As soon as they got it, or even before they got it, I’d have a request for further documentation.
I’m tellin’ ya lad, it’s a screwed up mess. A done mess though and thankfully I got my decision prior to having to file for an extension this year, 'cause no way in hell was I going to submit another return until this one was cleared up.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2005, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495/27 "2005-04-18T16:15:52Z")
Well, here’s the problem with “IRS Horror stories”- dudes _can_ say the IRS did _anything_, and the IRS can’t respond with what really happened (or, rather- “their side of the story”) as Congress passed a law saying that they couldn’t.
Since - as my Bro pointed out ot me in an IRS publication- you’re supposed to go to Appeals _first,_\* then\* tax Court, clearly something is unusual about your case, espially as my Brother says they don’t just pick Exemptions out of the blue and ask you to prove them.
So- all we’ll know here is your side of the story. of course- since the IRS is a giant bureacracy- bad things do happen on occasion.
As an example- my Bro was able to tell me a story form one of his associates. Seems like a “small family farmer” was being hounded by the IRS. They were insisting he had large cash sales, and he basicly onlyhad to report a small amount of income from crop subsidies and a little Farmers market stuff. The farmer wrote to his congressman and everyhing, and the IRS was painted as dudes who didn’t know anything about farming as they were proposing such a high cash crop sales that no crop made that kind of money- and they were bulldozing that man through, too, not being nice, etc etc.
What the farmer _didn’t_ tell his Congressman, and the IRS _couldn’t_ tell the Congressman- was that his main ‘cash crop’ was marijauna. But until you add in that one tiny detail- the IRS looked like some sort of out of control monsters, with figures not based in any way in reality. But the IRS _could_ tell the Tax Court that info when the case got there- and when the Decision was published, the Congressman dropped all support for his “poor little family farmer” in a hot second.
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### Author:  [@bare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bare)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2005, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495/28 "2005-04-18T16:26:46Z")
I trust you ain’t calling me a liar lad. I have the evidence right here in my six inches of paperwork and since it just occured, I’m not dis-remembering a thing. Everything I reported is exactly as I reported it.
I wouldn’t exactly consider this a horror story, since the amount in question doesn’t amount to a hill of beans.
Do you really want a laugh? The resolution only came after two of our friends wrote letters, un-notarized at that, attesting to the existance of our son, one of them, our midwife who has known him since the second he was born here at home.
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495/29 "2005-04-18T17:16:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> That quote leads to a problem with "Maryland department of revenue ", not the IRS.
Er, my account in the linked post plainly said “2003 **federal** taxes”. WTF does that have to do with the Maryland department of revenue? 😕
> [@](#):
>
> The IRS is \*reasonably \*fair, and _reasonably_ compentant at the Professional level.
I don’t find inability to correctly match up a W-2 form attached to a return with a W-2 form reported by an employer to be either competent or professional.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495/30 "2005-04-18T18:29:52Z")
The bulk of that post is taken up with a quote "Originally Posted by MaddyStrut
My tax tale of woe…
A few years ago some Maryland department of revenue snafu led them to believe I hadn’t paid anything, withheld anything, or even filed a return for the year 2000. I had, and I have no idea how things got messed up on their end. All I know is one day I got a nasty letter in the mail saying I owed them thousands of dollars. It was not a happy day for me! That letter could send a healthy person into instant cardiac arrest…"
Then there is a brief tale of woe about w-2 matching problems. Now- W-2 matching is _not_ done by an “audit” so she _didn’t_ get an 'audit notice". The “drones” that do w-2 matching are not Professionals, they are mostly part-timer’s- housewives and the like, paid very little. They only send out “inquiry letters”, not “audit notices”. Yes, she had to explain something. Big whoop. :dubious:
The IRS could have the whole “para-professional & data-entry” staff down at the Service center replaced by CPA’s- but Congress won’t pay for it. The IRS could have every phone question answered 100% correctly on the 1st ring- but again- your Congress won’t pay for it. Congress cuts the budget, it cuts the Quality, too.
The price your lady paid for this cheeseparing cheapness on the part of Congress is that she had to answer an “inquiry”. Don’t like it?- then ask Congress to increase the budget. You get what you pay for.
Don’t get me wrong- the IRS is made up out of People- People make mistakes. Add in poor pay, nasty comments from Congress and the Administration, hatred by the general public, and a “the beatings will stop when morale improves” managment culture- and I am suprised they are as good as they are. ☹
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [April 19, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/irs-tax-gap-why-not-hire-a-lot-more-investigators/299495/31 "2005-04-19T00:45:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#):
>
> Finally- do note- a great amount of the 300 Billion is Uncollectable. Dudes that are bankrupt, dead, etc. Even increasing the IRS 10X wouldn’t get it all. However, they could double the IRS’s enforcement staff, and bring in a good portion of it. How many dudes here want to write Congress and ask that the IRS gets a huge increase in their budget so they can do more audits? :dubious: I thought so… 😛
I’d be all for it, so long as they expend their efforts in a manner proportional to the distribution of the revenue they believe they aren’t collecting. IOW, if 30% of the missing revenue is attributable to one group, then the IRS should put 30% of its man-hours into tracking down that missing revenue. If another group is responsible for only 5% of the missing revenue, then it gets 5% of the man-hours. And so forth.
If people are scamming the taxman, it means that either the rest of us pay more to make up for it - or the government has to borrow more money, and our children pay more. I think we should go after them, whoever they are, without any bias aimed at tax shelters for the rich, or people who abuse the EITC, or whatever - just wherever a certain percentage of the money’s leaking out, the IRS should put that percentage of its energy into plugging the hole. And I’m all for their doing more of that.
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