# Is 48 Laws of power written by a psychopath? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 21, 2012, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676 "2012-11-21T02:36:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/41 "2012-11-24T03:21:15Z")
To be honest the list sounds like it’s kind of a joke. Look at Rule 2. It doesn’t make any sense, or at bet, it’s something I could easily turn around and say the opposite and make it sound just as good. Why shoulkd I hire an enemy again? Because he has “more to prove”? WTF does that mean? Hey, I’ll write my own Rule 2: RULE 2: Never hire or trust an enemy, for an enemy, no matter what he says, shall work to undermine your plans. Why is my Rule 2 any less valid than their Rule 2? ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/42 "2012-11-24T04:02:28Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > To be honest the list sounds like it’s kind of a joke. > > Look at Rule 2. It doesn’t make any sense, or at bet, it’s something I could easily turn around and say the opposite and make it sound just as good. Why shoulkd I hire an enemy again? Because he has “more to prove”? WTF does that mean? Hey, I’ll write my own Rule 2: > > RULE 2: Never hire or trust an enemy, for an enemy, no matter what he says, shall work to undermine your plans. > > Why is my Rule 2 any less valid than their Rule 2? Well, I think rule number 2 actually applies to FORMER enemies. Only an idiot would hire random people who disliked him. OTOH, I definitely agree with keeping VERY close tabs on people who are actively interested in hurting you, and who you cannot easily escape or avoid. For instance, co-workers who seem to go out of their way to say damaging things about you to anyone who’ll listen. I have a few people like that at my job, and I wish they’d just clam it up. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2012, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/43 "2012-11-24T06:04:09Z")
So is this base on the Ferengi [Rules of Acquisition](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Rules_of_Acquisition) or did Star Trek parody Rules of Power ---
**Author:** ![Harvey\_The\_Heavy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Harvey\_The\_Heavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harvey_The_Heavy)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/44 "2012-11-25T01:23:28Z")
I notice that half of these contradict the other half. The author didn’t even have the sense to separate contradictory rules very far, like 37 and 38, 28 and 30, 20 and 23 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/45 "2012-11-25T01:47:41Z")
> [@Harvey\_The\_Heavy](#): > > I notice that half of these contradict the other half. The author didn’t even have the sense to separate contradictory rules very far, like 37 and 38, 28 and 30, 20 and 23 Great minds think alike…and fools seldom differ. Jeez, folks are looking this to be a lot more than it can or should be. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/46 "2012-11-25T02:58:50Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Great minds think alike…and fools seldom differ. > > Jeez, folks are looking this to be a lot more than it can or should be. Like consistent, workable, or essential principles instead of poorly thought out rules for dealing with dysfunctional people and institutions in a manner that only perpetuates the behavior? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Mikki89](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Mikki89](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mikki89)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2012, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/47 "2012-11-25T12:10:09Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > But that could be an ethics class or a straightforward attempt to teach it as meaningful. In fact, I found examples of both: > > Apparently straightforward: > [http://www.ramapo.edu/academics/firstYear/docs/syl/INTD-101-26-Fall-2012-061412.pdf](http://www.ramapo.edu/academics/firstYear/docs/syl/INTD-101-26-Fall-2012-061412.pdf) > > In sensible context, I think: > [http://lgstdept.wharton.upenn.edu/shellric/documents/Literature%20of%20Success%202007%20Syllabus%20(5-26-06).pdf](http://lgstdept.wharton.upenn.edu/shellric/documents/Literature%20of%20Success%202007%20Syllabus%20(5-26-06).pdf) meaningful LMAO!!! :o [![](http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp241/3RDW0RLD/MauryLaughing.gif) ](http://i416.photobucket.com/albums/pp241/3RDW0RLD/MauryLaughing.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/48 "2012-11-26T00:46:49Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Is it going to shatter anyone’s dearly held illusions if I point out that this book was written by an author whose only notable accomplishment was writing this book and getting it promoted by the self-proclaimed “gangsta” rapper community. > > Stranger _“gangsta” rapper community._ Which is one of the most ruthless, competitive business environments in the world. In terms of creating products and maintaining brands, and creating and maintaining interpersonal relationships. Winners stand to make billions, literally, billions of dollars. Loses will end up unknown, impoverished, and in some cases, dead by assassination. Consider your bubble burst. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/49 "2012-11-26T01:17:59Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > Which is one of the most ruthless, competitive business environments in the world. In terms of creating products and maintaining brands, and creating and maintaining interpersonal relationships. Winners stand to make billions, literally, billions of dollars. Loses will end up unknown, impoverished, and in some cases, dead by assassination. So name the people who’ve become billionaires by following “The Rules of Power.” For that matter, demonstrate that following the rules makes someone more likely to be successful in the hip hop industry (or any other industry.) The book has sold over a million copies, but I don’t see that many rap billionaires. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/50 "2012-11-26T01:42:00Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Like consistent, workable, or essential principles instead of poorly thought out rules for dealing with dysfunctional people and institutions in a manner that only perpetuates the behavior? > > Stranger I would prefer to agree with you. But life is messy and power matters. This particular book is a silly rendering of power-related rules of thumb, nothing more. Whether rules of thumb about power actually matter to most of us in our daily lives is another issue. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/51 "2012-11-26T04:01:44Z")
I don’t think the whole list is sociopathic (but some of the rules certainly are), but even the ones that are good advice are worded like only an asshole would. For instance, appealing to people’s self interest IS a worthwhile thing to do. You can only go so far appealing to “pleeaaase help me, I’ll be your best friend.” It’s much better to get people to help you by being able to offer something that helps them in return. In general, playing politics is a necessary but dirty thing, and learning how to appeal to people’s interests and control (to a small degree) how you’re viewed by others is a useful skill set. That said, this list goes waaaaaaaaaay off the deep end. This list is to good professional politics as pick up artist tactics are to good dating. Some kernels of truth and good advice here and there, but overall liable to get you in some sticky situations. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/52 "2012-11-26T07:09:29Z")
I’d say about half correct, half false. Not a real nut, just a dork author writing it. e.g. ‘Lure him with fabulous gains’ UH, Yeah, everybody wants to do my bidding, because I am a drone such as them, and they will really believe that I have fabulous gifts within my reach. “have spies…” yes, indeedy. Every person with ears shaped like keyholes will come running to me, and me alone, giving me all of the dark secrets of my coworkers because they like me. Or, because of the fabulous gains I reward my subjects with. The evil behaviour that the author mentions does have a ring of truth, tho. I have seen much of it. Not that I recommend it, but, it does work. Some of it. ---
**Author:** ![Saraya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Saraya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saraya)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/53 "2012-11-26T11:00:48Z")
> [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](#): > > "Law 11 > > Never teach them enough so that they can do without you." Guess Jesus didn’t read the 48 Laws of Power before the whole fishing incident. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/54 "2012-11-26T16:52:33Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > So name the people who’ve become billionaires by following “The Rules of Power.” For that matter, demonstrate that following the rules makes someone more likely to be successful in the hip hop industry (or any other industry.) The book has sold over a million copies, but I don’t see that many rap billionaires. You’re right, only a few billionaires. But more than a few centimillionaires. Of course, no industry is going to be full of billionaires. I’m claiming here that the popularity of the book in the hip hop world is due to the added value it provides in helping hip hop stars survive and triumph in a brutal industry. If it were just a fad, why would they waste their time? > **[50 Cent](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent)** > > Curtis James Jackson III (born July 6, 1975), known professionally as 50 Cent,\[n 1\] is an American rapper, actor, and television producer. Born in South Jamaica, a neighborhood of Queens, Jackson began pursuing a musical career in 1996. In 1999–2000, he recorded his debut album Power of the Dollar for Columbia Records; however, he was struck by nine bullets during a shooting in May 2000, causing its release to be cancelled and Jackson to be dropped from the label. His 2002 mixtape, Guess Who'... > **[Prefixmag](https://prefixmag.com)** > > Prefixmag is the premier source for celebrity news and gossip. Stay up-to-date with the latest on your favorite stars, film reviews, countdowns to events and more. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/55 "2012-11-26T16:59:51Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > You’re right, only a few billionaires. But more than a few centimillionaires. Of course, no industry is going to be full of billionaires. > > I’m claiming here that the popularity of the book in the hip hop world is due to the added value it provides in helping hip hop stars survive and triumph in a brutal industry. If it were just a fad, why would they waste their time? > [50 Cent - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent) > > [http://www.prefixmag.com/news/here-are-the-20-richest-rappers-alive/67559/](http://www.prefixmag.com/news/here-are-the-20-richest-rappers-alive/67559/) The entire music industry consists of a handful of big stars and a ton of people going nowhere. The only thing rap adds is an occasional murder, which is more stupid than anything else. Is one of the rules of power “Risk going to jail for decades by killing someone over a stupid made-up beef?” ETA: Also, there’s a lot more to music than the quest for super-stardom. A lot of people, even a fair number of rappers, are really doing it because they love to make music. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/56 "2012-11-26T19:59:44Z")
I’d prefer not to divert the thread into “What is the hip hop industry really like?” territory. This isn’t a debate about whether hip hop is good music or adds anything to the overall value of pop music. Those are subjects for another thread. The question at hand is, Does the popularity of the book in the hip hop industry mean that the book has little value? My answer, No. The information in the book has some non-trivail utility for players in the hip hop game, given that hip hop is brutally competitive and cutthroat, and given that the winners of the game stand to make hundreds of millions of dollars. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/57 "2012-11-26T21:08:30Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > I’d prefer not to divert the thread into “What is the hip hop industry really like?” territory. This isn’t a debate about whether hip hop is good music or adds anything to the overall value of pop music. Those are subjects for another thread. > > The question at hand is, Does the popularity of the book in the hip hop industry mean that the book has little value? > > My answer, No. The information in the book has some non-trivail utility for players in the hip hop game, given that hip hop is brutally competitive and cutthroat, and given that the winners of the game stand to make hundreds of millions of dollars. And our point is that you have provided nothing to back up your claim that it has actually helped someone. You’ve referenced people you think use it, and that’s it. The closest you have is that the book is popular. So are a lot of self-help books, despite their advice not actually working. See _The Secret_, for example. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/58 "2012-11-27T16:01:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And our point is that you have provided nothing to back up your claim that it has actually helped someone. You’ve referenced people you think use it, and that’s it. The closest you have is that the book is popular. So are a lot of self-help books, despite their advice not actually working. See _The Secret_, for example. Wikipedia is your friend - it may not be definitive, but it attempts, directly, to speak to who in a power position has used the book: > **[The 48 Laws of Power](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_48_Laws_of_Power)** > > The 48 Laws of Power (1999) is a self-help book by American author Robert Greene. The book is a New York Times bestseller, selling over 1.2 million copies in the United States. > Greene initially formulated some of the ideas in The 48 Laws of Power while working as a writer in Hollywood and concluding that today's power elite shared similar traits with powerful figures throughout history. In 1995, Greene worked as a writer at Fabrica, an art and media school, and met a book packager named Joost El... > [@](#): > > The 48 Laws of Power (2000) is the first book by American author Robert Greene. The book, an international bestseller, is a practical guide for anyone who wants power, observes power, or wants to arm himself against power.It has sold over 1.2 million copies in the United States alone and is popular with famous rappers, entrepreneurs, celebrities, athletes and actors including 50 Cent, Jay-Z, Kanye West, Busta Rhymes, Ludacris, DJ Premier, Dov Charney, Brian Grazer, Andrew Bynum, Chris Bosh, and Will Smith. I am NOT a fan of the book; as I said upthread, it is a somewhat silly repackaging of known rules of thumb regarding acquiring and retaining power. But it has been used by players who have been successful in those objectives - Brian Grazer is no gangsta rapper, dude - so this discussion should start with those facts in hand (I had read about Grazer’s and other Hollywood types’ interest in the book years ago). I will say it again: these types of books may be marketed widely, but most of us encounter situations where these rules apply very rarely. So, yeah, the rules seem psycho, contradictory, etc., to most of us average Joes. SEAL Team survival skills sound amazing to us civilians, too - we love reading about them. But they are kinda psycho in terms of their applicability to your average suburban wannabe. This writer’s interpretation of power rules may be silly, but the rules are useful to a small group. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676/59 "2012-11-27T18:15:46Z")
You know the number one rule of having power? HAVE power. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-48-laws-of-power-written-by-a-psychopath/641676.md?page=2)