# Is $70,000/year in Cupertino enough? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 28, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820 "2023-09-28T15:36:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/1 "2023-09-28T15:36:39Z")
Just got offered a job in Cupertino. The salary range was $70-85k but the offer was at the bottom - $70k. Having never lived in the Bay Area before, is this enough to live on as a single person (and still be able to save some money at the same time) or should I be trying to negotiate higher in that range in order to make ends meet? Cupertino does have houses that cost $1-2 million apiece on average to buy, for instance, although I don’t plan on buying a house - and apartments that can easily cost $30,000+ a year to rent. Just wondering if there are other hidden expenses (aside from state tax) that I need to account for. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/2 "2023-09-28T15:44:14Z")
Enough to live, yes. How do you feel about roommates? I doubt you will be able to save much money. The cost of living there is 142% higher than the national average. It’s in the top 0.5% of the most expensive cities in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/3 "2023-09-28T15:57:51Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > How do you feel about roommates? I don’t like roommates, but if it’s the only way to save costs, I’d do it. I’m hoping to rent a bedroom in someone’s house and still be mostly alone to myself. Even a bedroom of that sort goes for $1,000 a month. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/4 "2023-09-28T16:03:50Z")
Check out these apartment rentals in Cupertino CA: > **[Rental Listings in Cupertino CA - 41 Rentals | Zillow](https://www.zillow.com/cupertino-ca/rentals/?searchQueryState=%7B%22pagination%22%3A%7B%7D%2C%22isMapVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapBounds%22%3A%7B%22west%22%3A-122.1764639267578%2C%22east%22%3A-121.95536407324218%2C%22south%22%3A37.21394472694602%2C%22north%22%3A37.392274205562686%7D%2C%22usersSearchTerm%22%3A%22Cupertino%20CA%22%2C%22regionSelection%22%3A%5B%7B%22regionId%22%3A4281%2C%22regionType%22%3A6%7D%5D%2C%22filterState%22%3A%7B%22fr%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22fsba%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22fsbo%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22nc%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22cmsn%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22auc%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22fore%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22ah%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Atrue%7D%2C%22sf%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%2C%22tow%22%3A%7B%22value%22%3Afalse%7D%7D%2C%22isListVisible%22%3Atrue%2C%22mapZoom%22%3A12%7D)** > > This is a list of all of the rental listings in Cupertino CA. Don't forget to use the filters and set up a saved search. Not saying there’s _nothing_ cheaper, but sites like Zillow and [Realtor.com](http://Realtor.com) give you an idea of what the market is like. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/5 "2023-09-28T16:08:42Z")
In my experience, sites like [Realtor.com](http://Realtor.com) and Zillow are listing the big apartment complexes, not an apartment in a small building, or one attached to someone’s house, so the listings are of the more expensive apartments. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/6 "2023-09-28T16:14:51Z")
It might be worth taking this job since it would give you the ability to look for other jobs nearby. Assuming this is a tech job, you could spend your time there job hunting and possibly find a job that pays much more. Expect to live in a roommate situation for the first year while you figure out what you want to do. Roommate situations are also easier to get out of rather than an apartment lease in your name. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/7 "2023-09-28T16:20:07Z")
Why not negotiate? Unless they said that this is the only and final offer, that 70K probably isn’t their ceiling. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/8 "2023-09-28T16:24:24Z")
FYI, looking at [this webpage](https://www.cupertino.org/our-city/departments/community-development/housing/below-market-rate-housing-program/bmr-rental-program) for the city of Cupertino, a single-person household making less than $96,000 qualifies as “low income.” Congratulations; you can apply for below market rate rentals. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/9 "2023-09-28T16:27:38Z")
Well, that’s…sad and glad. Thanks for the info. I’ll still be setting my sights on renting a bedroom out of someone’s house, too, which also has the additional benefit of likely being already half-furnished and someone else providing the utilities. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/10 "2023-09-28T16:50:59Z")
It definitely seems like some more granular information is called for: > **[Cost of Living in Cupertino, CA | PayScale](https://www.payscale.com/cost-of-living-calculator/California-Cupertino)** > > Cupertino, California’s cost of living is 142% higher than the national average. Compare cost of living in Cupertino with factors like salaries, housing expenses, groceries, utilities and more. > **[Cost of Living in Cupertino, California](https://www.bestplaces.net/cost_of_living/city/california/cupertino)** > > Best Places to Live | Compare cost of living, crime, cities, schools and more. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/11 "2023-09-28T16:51:52Z")
Cupertino is one of the most expensive cities in the Bay Area, and that’s saying something. But you don’t have to live in Cupertino just because you work there. There are many nice cities within commute distance of Cupertino and most of them are at least somewhat cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/12 "2023-09-28T16:57:07Z")
Yeah - from what little experience I have, I suggest you consider how long of a commute you are willing to accept. And how crapy of housing. Currently, being accustomed to a level of comfort in a less expensive area, I would not be able to relocate to that area at twice (maybe 3x) the salary you describe. But at different stages of my life, I was content to live in absolute shitholes. Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/13 "2023-09-28T17:40:07Z")
I’m going to give it a try. I don’t have much leverage, though, given that this is my only job offer. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/14 "2023-09-28T17:48:12Z")
But they’re not going to withdraw the offer just because you make a counter. The worst they’d do is say “no, we’re not moving from 70K”. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/15 "2023-09-28T18:07:19Z")
Good advice, guess there’s nothing to lose. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/16 "2023-09-28T18:55:01Z")
If they did withdraw the offer just because you countered, that in itself would be a good thing. That demonstrates they’d be hell to work for. The only thing worse than making $70k in Cupertino is being recently unemployed in Cupertino. As to housing, seconding the notion to spend some tie with Google maps find out how far away is a 90-minute drive at the times you’d be likely to go to/from work. Then investigate all the municipalities within that 90-minute circle. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/17 "2023-09-28T19:00:25Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > In my experience, sites like [Realtor.com](http://Realtor.com) and Zillow are listing the big apartment complexes, not an apartment in a small building, or one attached to someone’s house, so the listings are of the more expensive apartments. Very true. But as I said, these sites > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > …give you an idea of what the market is like. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/18 "2023-09-28T19:16:13Z")
On $70,000 a year I wouldn’t call it living. I’ve known people in similar situations who were very unhappy with no disposal income left after covering the basics. OTOH if you’re young and have little to lose you can always move someplace cheaper if it doesn’t work out, and maybe it will work out and be the start of something better. It’s really about your tolerance for just getting by. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/19 "2023-09-28T19:50:09Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Cupertino is one of the most expensive cities in the Bay Area, and that’s saying something. But you don’t have to live in Cupertino just because you work there. There are many nice cities within commute distance of Cupertino and most of them are at least somewhat cheaper. This. To velocity: 25 years ago when I moved to the Bay Area Cupertino was way more expensive than the average place, thanks to Apple in no small part. Cast a wider net. One of the good things about living in Silicon Valley is how easy it is to change jobs, so even if you pick for a short commute now in a few years you may be facing a longer commute to a new and better paying job. Check Google maps for traffic information around commute time. When we were house hunting I did the drive from the place I was thinking about buying to work and it seemed fine - but it was 2 pm, not 8 am. But in a year and a quarter I switched jobs to someplace much closer. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820/20 "2023-09-28T21:28:21Z")
$70K is going to be enough to rent a place, for sure, and probably live fairly comfortably depending on your circumstances and needs. Cupertino is not along the Caltrain line or the county’s light rail network, so that somewhat limits your transit options - any commute will likely be by car. Going northwest (Mountain View, Palo Alto, the peninsula) or south (Saratoga, Los Gatos) will only mean equal or higher rents compared to Cupertino. Nearby Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, and Campbell (and the area informally on the map as West San Jose) may give you a better value. Believe it or not, San Jose, the most expensive large city in the US, is going to be your best value in the South Bay, but watch commute routing and timing, as other are saying. There’s nothing more soul-crushing than having to wade thru traffic for an hour before and after a long work day. (I lived in the South Bay for most of the 90s). If your new job is telecommuting, then you have even more options. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-70-000-year-in-cupertino-enough/990820.md?page=2)