# Is a 17 day vacation a lot in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 6, 2017, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957 "2017-08-06T23:50:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/61 "2017-08-07T17:29:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There is a certain culture in some white color jobs in the US that “vacations are for wimps” Urk. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/62 "2017-08-07T17:36:32Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > At 196 days into the presidency, Obama spent 21 nights away from the White House in non-official capacity (4 in Chicago and 17 at Camp David), and George W. Bush spent 67 nights away (4 to Kennebunkport, 6 to his ranch, 39 at Camp David). **By comparison, Trump will have spent 41 nights away (25 at Mar-a-Lago, 14 to New Jersey, 2 at Camp David).** So Trump isn’t breaking records so far in terms of total vacation days. It should be noted, however, that Camp David is essentially equipped as an alternate to the West Wing, and as such “vacations” there are essentially working days in a retreat setting to caucus with senior advisors and Cabinet members on long range policy planning or other strategic issues away from daily churn. Trump’s vacations, on the other hand, appear to largely be spent golfing and meeting with family and (former) business associates, although it is had to tell because Trump has deliberately excluded press pool members from most of his trips, and press briefings about the President’s activities have been misleading if not outright lies. > > Over two full year terms of office, Obama took 217 nights, Bush 553, Clinton 274 and Reagan 335. (Some of Reagan’s days were recuperation from the Hinkley assassination attempt and so weren’t recreation.) For average days per year that works out to about 27, 69, 34, and 42, respectively. If Trump kept up this pace for the remainder of his presidency he’ll be at about 76 days of vacation per year. > > Stranger [NBC](http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/how-much-time-trump-spending-trump-properties-n753366) has Trump at 62 days at Trump properties total(47 of those at golf resorts). He’s also gone to 5(6?) campaign rallies though I can’t find the page that listed that. ETA:[Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_post_election_Donald_Trump_rallies) 7 rallies. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/63 "2017-08-07T17:43:26Z")
While there is hypocrisy aplenty surrounding this issue, I do not believe fore one second that Trump’s critics would have been silent about this vacation had he not made such fool of himself during the campaign by declaring that he would not have time to play golf or take a vacation if he were president. And yes, that was a pun. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BeeGee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5a626/32.png) [@BeeGee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeeGee)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/64 "2017-08-07T17:55:28Z")
We start at 12 days vacation, 12 sick days, and 13 holidays. I’ve been here awhile (over 25 years) and I now get 25.5 days of vacation, 13 holidays, and 12 sick days. I have a co-worker who takes 2 weeks at a time, but most of us break it up during the year. If I’m not going anywhere, I like to take Thurs & Fri of one week and Mon-Wed of the next. Bust it up a little. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/65 "2017-08-07T17:56:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > While there is hypocrisy aplenty surrounding this issue, I do not believe fore one second that Trump’s critics would have been silent about this vacation had he not made such fool of himself during the campaign by declaring that he would not have time to play golf or take a vacation if he were president. > > And yes, that was a pun. 😉 I never bitched about Bush’s days off. The big problem is the pattern of Trump’s “vacations”. Every weekend which means Friday/Monday for travel and all the logistics needed to handle the Presidential transport and security detail. Get on Marine One, fly to Andrews, get on AF1, meanwhile his limo (and other vehicles) and helicopter are being loaded on other planes. Reverse at the destination. Do again to go home. I’m sure that adds up to a good portion of each travel day. It’s not just the weekend, it’s a large portion of two more days with little time to really get anything started. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/66 "2017-08-07T18:01:49Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I never bitched about Bush’s days off. > The big problem is the pattern of Trump’s “vacations”. Every weekend which means Friday/Monday for travel and all the logistics needed to handle the Presidential transport and security detail. > Get on Marine One, fly to Andrews, get on AF1, meanwhile his limo (and other vehicles) and helicopter are being loaded on other planes. Reverse at the destination. Do again to go home. I’m sure that adds up to a good portion of each travel day. > It’s not just the weekend, it’s a large portion of two more days with little time to really get anything started. There’s also a huge disruption to local businesses that depend on the weekend. [For small airports in N.J., Trump’s weekend visits cast a 30-mile-long shadow](http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2017/06/trump_bedminster_airports.html) > [@](#): > > Despite a beautiful view under sunny skies, the mood at Blairstown Airport these days is gloomy. > > The problem isn’t the wind, whose updrafts constantly sweep off the ridges of the Kittatinny Mountains to the west. > > Nor is it the customers, for whom any kind of flying - whether as a pilot or a passenger - continues to fascinate. > > No, the problem is nearly an hour away, by car: President Donald Trump’s weekend visits to his golf club in Bedminster. > > For the duration of any of his stays there, smaller aircraft cannot operate out of any airport within 30 nautical miles. > > That means no hang-gliding, crop-dusting, parachuting, banner-towing, sight-seeing, maintenance test flights, utility surveys, flight lessons, practice landings, model airplanes, short flights in vintage planes, glider tours, sky-diving or even drone-flying. He also claims he’s [saving money](http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2017/06/trump_returning_to_nj_this_weekend.html) by going to his properties. > [@](#): > > He said taxpayers were saving money by him being in New Jersey rather than at Trump Tower in New York City. He could save more by staying in the White House. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/67 "2017-08-07T18:44:39Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Just curious if all the chatter about the Trump vacation is because 17 days is a lot? > > Or because people don’t think he’s worked enough to take 17 days off? The only time in my life I took a \>=17 day vacation (23 days) was 2 years after I had retired. I know it happens in the US, but it is rare. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/68 "2017-08-07T18:45:48Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I never bitched about Bush’s days off. And I never said you did. 😉 > [@](#): > > The big problem is the pattern of Trump’s “vacations”. Every weekend which means Friday/Monday for travel and all the logistics needed to handle the Presidential transport and security detail. > Get on Marine One, fly to Andrews, get on AF1, meanwhile his limo (and other vehicles) and helicopter are being loaded on other planes. Reverse at the destination. Do again to go home. I’m sure that adds up to a good portion of each travel day. > It’s not just the weekend, it’s a large portion of two more days with little time to really get anything started. I think it’s worth whatever it costs to keep him out of the WH for as long as possible. Not that he isn’t still the president when he’s gone, but there’s less presidenting to do. And I see that he tweeted early in the AM today to bitch about a Congressman. Who said this was not a working vacation!! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/69 "2017-08-07T18:58:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > While there is hypocrisy aplenty surrounding this issue, I do not believe fore one second that Trump’s critics would have been silent about this vacation had he not made such fool of himself during the campaign by declaring that he would not have time to play golf or take a vacation if he were president. Why should they? It might be justifiable if Trump’s legislative agenda were progressing as promised and the State Department senior leadership was well constituted and addressing international issues effectively, but by any measure these are both areas of oversight that could be charitably be described as “off-track”. The only thing going well for the administration at this point is the growing economy and employment numbers, both of which are inherited from the prior administration and not a result of any economic policies implemented by Trump regardless of his claims. It is the President’s job to be the exemplar of leadership in the face of challenges, a concept even hands-off executives such as Reagan understood. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/70 "2017-08-07T19:07:55Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Why should they? Some posters in this thread have said that the complaints are all about the hypocrisy. I don’t think it is, and it sounds like you don’t, either. > [@](#): > > It might be justifiable if Trump’s legislative agenda were progressing as promised and the State Department senior leadership was well constituted and addressing international issues effectively, but by any measure these are both areas of oversight that could be charitably be described as “off-track”. The only thing going well for the administration at this point is the growing economy and employment numbers, both of which are inherited from the prior administration and not a result of any economic policies implemented by Trump regardless of his claims. It is the President’s job to be the exemplar of leadership in the face of challenges, a concept even hands-off executives such as Reagan understood. And I don’t disagree with any of that. I would only add that I like him not being in the WH. He should take more vacations. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/71 "2017-08-07T19:16:49Z")
As far as Trump is concerned, the entire 4 year term is a lark, i.e., vacation. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/72 "2017-08-07T19:48:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > And I don’t disagree with any of that. I would only add that I like him not being in the WH. He should take more vacations. I’d be happy to give him three and a half years of vacation if he’d take Mike Pence with him, and maybe we could elect someone marginally competent who actually wants the job. > [@Musicat](#): > > As far as Trump is concerned, the entire 4 year term is a lark, i.e., vacation. Except he didn’t realize that it would be “this hard” or that people would be so critical about his performance (or as he puts it, “MEAN!”) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/73 "2017-08-07T19:57:32Z")
According to Trump, 17 days for a president’s vacation is fine, as long as you are Trump. [But 10 days is too much for Obama.](http://www.newsweek.com/2017/08/11/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-gop-white-house-potus-bannon-643996.html?utm_source=internal&utm_campaign=most_read&utm_medium=most_read1) > [@](#): > > “@BarackObama played golf yesterday,” Trump’s tweet announced. “Now he heads to a 10 day vacation in Martha’s Vineyard. Nice work ethic.” ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/74 "2017-08-07T20:07:39Z")
I get 31 days of paid time off. Since I didn’t take much at the beginning of the year, that means with holidays, I’m taking a week off every month for the last half of the year. 17 days isn’t really 17 days, as was noted above. It’s 2 weeks plus a day. And “vacation”, even for a president like Trump, doesn’t mean he’s unplugged. I’m sure he’ll get economic and security briefings every day. It’s more a change of venue from the White House. StG ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/75 "2017-08-07T20:43:55Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > 17 days isn’t really 17 days, as was noted above. It’s 2 weeks plus a day. And “vacation”, even for a president like Trump, doesn’t mean he’s unplugged. I’m sure he’ll get economic and security briefings every day. It’s more a change of venue from the White House. Trump doesn’t accept daily security briefings even when he is in the Oval Office. In fact, by all appearances he spends the majority of his time watching cable news and tweeting. He’s about as Presidential as an eight year old girl even when he’s not on vacation, and based on previous “vacations” he has his spokespeople claim that he is working while spotted playing golf. He is the spoiled toddler we have collectively enabled and made our representative to the rest of the world. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/76 "2017-08-07T21:35:58Z")
Alternate work schedules can make those 17 day (or longer) vacations routine. My normal work pattern is 12 hours days with four days on and four days off. With my level of seniority I get 18 working days off plus 11 public holidays (12 this year as election day was a holiday here). Since our office (a 9-1-1 center) does not close for holidays we get alternate days off in lieu for public holidays. In total that makes for 30 working days off this year. With the 4 one/4 off work pattern taking 4 vacation and/or public holiday days gives me 12 days off in a row. I could do that 6 times this year except taking two rotations off in a row bumps that up to 20 days off in a row. Of course the trade off is working holidays. My turn for New Years Eve overnight shift this year. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/77 "2017-08-07T23:26:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Some posters in this thread have said that the complaints are all about the hypocrisy. I don’t think it is, and it sounds like you don’t, either. Do you think those people would rather him stay in DC getting things done? Personally, I’m not criticizing him for this particular vacation, but his hypocrisy about Obama’s time off and the “he’s working, not golfing” lies are fair game in general. He seems really lazy, and this is after he spent years criticizing people who actually worked hard as being lazy. If he were elected in 2008 after criticizing Bush, I’d feel the same way. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/78 "2017-08-08T00:35:06Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > He even [got specific](https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/413762618243833858?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2Fentry%2Ftrump-obama-vacation-tweets_us_5982dcdae4b06d4888743fce) about 17 day vacations in particular. He’s walking a mile in Obama’s shoes so he can criticise him fairly. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/79 "2017-08-08T01:19:59Z")
I work in retail. No vacation the first year, then one week (five days) a year for the next however many. I think I’d been there 4-5 years when I started getting two weeks, and around 9-10 years I started getting three. The max, I believe, is five. Nobody – not even management – takes more than one week at a time. Not sure how much can be carried over from one year to the next, but I think it’s 2.5 times your current rate. In addition to that, state law says we’re entitled to five days’ sick time per year. Can’t carry it over, and unlike the bakery, if we don’t use it we lose it. (When I worked in the bakery I was pretty much never sick, so almost every year I got an extra week’s pay every December. :)) Part-timers can also get vacation time if they worked a certain minimum number of hours the previous year, but I don’t know any details. We get five holidays a year, including Thanksgiving and Xmas – the two days a year that we’re closed. Part-time employees get time and a half for working on a holiday. Full-time get seven hours’ holiday pay if they don’t work the holiday, and time and a half plus the seven hours if they do. No idea how it works for salaried. One of the big things I miss about the Navy – 30 days a year, and it started accruing the day you reported in to boot camp. And you had signed an enlistment contract, so they knew how much longer (barring unforeseen circumstances) you’d be working, and how much more leave you’d accumulate during that time. Which meant they’d let you go in the hole; at the six month point, my leave balance was -13 days. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957/80 "2017-08-08T10:26:40Z")
17 days doesn’t seem out of the ordinary to me, but it’s easy to forget a lot of US-ians don’t get much vacation. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > In the US, employers don’t have to offer any leave. There’s zero legal requirement. But they do offer it, because they would not be able to retain staff otherwise. You covered it pretty well. It depends on the company and the field you’re in. I have 34 paid days per year (incl holidays). Add sick time and off-Fridays\* and we have ~67 days off per year. They upped the vacation time several years ago, but even with that, we still have hundreds of unfilled openings. Personally I end up taking 4 or 5 mini-vacations per year and one big one (add 2 V days to an off-Friday weekend and you have a 5 day block). I rarely take more than 2 weeks contiguously though. \*9/80 work schedule - every other Friday off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-17-day-vacation-a-lot-in-the-us/792957.md?page=5)