# Is a 20% tip the minimum for good service? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 28, 2005, 10:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965 "2005-08-28T10:33:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/61 "2005-08-30T03:23:12Z")
I’d answer yes to the question. Very, very rarely do my husband or I tip under 20-30%. If we do, it’s because service was less than stellar. If service is poor or mediocre - 10-15%, although we have had a few meals with service that was just awful and in those instances, either no tip at all, or a one dollar bill was left. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/62 "2005-08-30T03:35:38Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > That’s one of the reasons that many places (at least places where the steaks cost more than $15) tell you “gratuity included” for parties over eight or so. The gratuity was included on the bill (for all parties over six at that place, I think) but that didn’t help us. Yeah, we knew what the TOTAL tip had to be (well, we give more, cause we’re sometimes unruley), but it doesn’t say what each person owes. In the first five minutes of getting the bill, money was flying everywhere, and it was impossible to be completly sure who put in exactly how much. ---
**Author:** ![nevermore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a587f6/32.png) [@nevermore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevermore)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/63 "2005-08-30T06:25:00Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Good. That was the point of the whole exercise. I **refuse** , now and forever, to give money to someone for substandard performance. I **hope** it comes out of their check! If they want a tip, earn it. And by that, I mean I expect certain standards of service that are the norm. If you never refill my tea, slam the plates down and then disappear when I want the check, not only will I **not** leave a tip, I will actively try to get your ass fired! Count on a complaint to the manager at the very least. _shrug_ but if you tip the minimum of tip share, you’re not tipping THEM, you’re just tipping whoever they have to tip out to. why not pay that, if the bussers/bartenders/hosts were satisfactory? I mean, damn, it’s one thing not to pay someone for a service you were unsatisfied with. but to not pay them AND to take money out of their pockets, that’s entirely another. say you don’t like your haircut, ok, you don’t pay for it. but you don’t then grab $5 out of the tip jar on your way out; that’s just dick. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/64 "2005-08-30T06:37:15Z")
> [@kidchameleon](#): > > Says the individual who has obviously never worked for NASA. I never claimed that it was similar, in fact, I tried to be clear in defining it as an “art” which is very different from a science. I’m just arguing that it isn’t as easy as it looks. Furthermore, I have several friends who work for NASA and none of them could ever be waitstaff at an upscale restaurant. They are too introverted. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/65 "2005-08-30T15:40:06Z")
> [@nevermore](#): > > _shrug_ but if you tip the minimum of tip share, you’re not tipping THEM, you’re just tipping whoever they have to tip out to. why not pay that, if the bussers/bartenders/hosts were satisfactory? I mean, damn, it’s one thing not to pay someone for a service you were unsatisfied with. but to not pay them AND to take money out of their pockets, that’s entirely another. say you don’t like your haircut, ok, you don’t pay for it. but you don’t then grab $5 out of the tip jar on your way out; that’s just dick. To quote Porthos: “Think of it as a fine, to teach you manners!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Future\_days](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cab0a1/32.png) [@Future\_days](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Future_days)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/66 "2005-08-30T18:36:34Z")
Well, now that I know how much waiting staff can earn in USA I wont be leaving any tips when I visit there. Different restaurant every night, no probs. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/67 "2005-08-30T19:35:21Z")
> [@Future days](#): > > Well, now that I know how much waiting staff can earn in USA I wont be leaving any tips when I visit there. Different restaurant every night, no probs. There’s no non-Pittable words I can use to express my feelings about your latest post. Why don’t you do our servers and yourself a favor and just stay in Britain. Waitstaff for the most part are paid $2.13 an hour. That’s it. If all her/his customers think like you do, “Well, screw her, everyone else will tip her, why should I have to?” do you know how much she’ll make? $2.13 an hour. In America, unlike many other countries, tips are an _expected_ part of your dining-out transaction, and only if you recieve bad service should a waiter/waitress _ever_ be docked or stiffed. Do you understand that **they have to pay taxes on an estimated tip of what she/he sold to you**? In addition to (in most restaurants) tipping out her busboy/bartender/other assorted floor staff? Why on earth do you think you’re so special that a waitress should be happy to literally pay out of her pocket for your cheap, elitist, sorry self to dine at her table. Ugh, people with your attitude just make me sick. ---
**Author:** ![Future\_days](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cab0a1/32.png) [@Future\_days](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Future_days)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/68 "2005-08-30T20:09:33Z")
> [@Cerri](#): > > There’s no non-Pittable words I can use to express my feelings about your latest post. Why don’t you do our servers and yourself a favor and just stay in Britain. > > Waitstaff for the most part are paid $2.13 an hour. That’s it. If all her/his customers think like you do, “Well, screw her, everyone else will tip her, why should I have to?” do you know how much she’ll make? > > $2.13 an hour. That’s not my fault is it. In UK we have a minimum wage of £5.10 an hour which is about $8, I thought US had a minimum wage, why it doesnt apply to waiting staff is a bit mental. I will not give them a tip. If they chose to work for $2.13 an hour that is their choice, they could get another job with a far better wage. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/69 "2005-08-30T20:14:51Z")
> [@Future days](#): > > That’s not my fault is it. In UK we have a minimum wage of £5.10 an hour which is about $8, I thought US had a minimum wage, why it doesnt apply to waiting staff is a bit mental. I will not give them a tip. If they chose to work for $2.13 an hour that is their choice, they could get another job with a far better wage. So your excuse is, “That’s not the way they do it in my country, so I’ll be damned if I do it.” Is there such a thing as an ugly Brit? ---
**Author:** ![Future\_days](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cab0a1/32.png) [@Future\_days](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Future_days)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/70 "2005-08-30T20:19:41Z")
Well I dont agree with the US system, so I’m not going to do it that way. It’s not that I’m elitist or anything, far from it, but I think it’s a stupid system. ---
**Author:** ![Cerri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@Cerri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerri)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/71 "2005-08-30T20:22:53Z")
> [@Future days](#): > > Well I dont agree with the US system, so I’m not going to do it that way. It’s not that I’m elitist or anything, far from it, but I think it’s a stupid system. Right…your earlier statement that “servants” shouldn’t make such “rediculous” money goes a long way to show how really non-elitist you are. Do us all a favor and stay home. ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/72 "2005-08-30T20:29:00Z")
> [@Future days](#): > > Well I dont agree with the US system, so I’m not going to do it that way. It’s not that I’m elitist or anything, far from it, but I think it’s a stupid system. I think that pounds and pence are stupid. Next time I’m in the UK, I’m going to pay with good ol’ dollars and cents, and the hell with you all who buy into those damn pounds sterling. I think the same about driving on the left side of the road. I’ll be driving on the right next time I’m in London. You all don’t mind, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Future\_days](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cab0a1/32.png) [@Future\_days](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Future_days)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/73 "2005-08-30T20:33:02Z")
> [@Athena](#): > > I think that pounds and pence are stupid. Next time I’m in the UK, I’m going to pay with good ol’ dollars and cents, and the hell with you all who buy into those damn pounds sterling. I think the same about driving on the left side of the road. I’ll be driving on the right next time I’m in London. You all don’t mind, do you? Well nobody will accept your money so you wont be able to buy anything, and you’ll probably crash your hire car. But apart from that, I see no problems. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/74 "2005-08-30T22:27:09Z")
> [@Future days](#): > > Well I dont agree with the US system, so I’m not going to do it that way. It’s not that I’m elitist or anything, far from it, but I think it’s a stupid system. Promise me you plan to hit a lot of biker bars in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Future\_days](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cab0a1/32.png) [@Future\_days](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Future_days)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/75 "2005-08-30T22:44:43Z")
Not really, no. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/76 "2005-08-30T22:54:11Z")
> [@Future days](#): > > Well I dont agree with the US system, so I’m not going to do it that way. It’s not that I’m elitist or anything, far from it, but I think it’s a stupid system. Ah, so you see no need to respect local customs, because your culture’s traditions are so self-evidently superior. I think I met assholes like you in bars all over Asia, talking about how boorish Americans are. ---
**Author:** ![Future\_days](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cab0a1/32.png) [@Future\_days](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Future_days)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/77 "2005-08-30T22:58:49Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Ah, so you see no need to respect local customs, because your culture’s traditions are so self-evidently superior. > > I think I met assholes like you in bars all over Asia, talking about how boorish Americans are. I respect most traditions, it depends how I feel about them. This is not really a tradition though, it just seems to be a way for employers to get out of paying their staff minimum wage, and that is why I refuse to accept it. I also dont like the way your waiters and bar-servers expect tips. I find it quite arrogant. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/78 "2005-08-30T23:07:13Z")
Back in the days before I worked in a restraunt I only tipped 15%, usually rounded up to the nearest dollar. Now I tip thrity percent on average. I don’t go to formal restraunts, and haven’t paid a tab of over 15$ per person in quite a while, so it’s actually not that much. If I get lousy service, I may dip into the 10-15% range, but that’s extremely rare. Why so? Well it’s a difficult, thankless, and dangerous job. Anyone who undertakes it deserves to get paid a reasonable amount. And contrary to what some people seem to think, minimum wage plus tips minus tip out does not equal a reasonable amount. As a side note, I have a very good memory for cheaters, as do most dining room employees. When I was working as a host two years back in California, I noticed a group that ripped off one of the waitresses. This summer that same group entered the place I was working in Alaska, and an appropriate punishment was dealt. Likewise people who give good tips will recieve quite considerable rewards (such as getting seated immediately while other people are waiting half an hour). ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/79 "2005-08-30T23:14:59Z")
> [@Future days](#): > > I respect most traditions, it depends how I feel about them. This is not really a tradition though, it just seems to be a way for employers to get out of paying their staff minimum wage, and that is why I refuse to accept it. I also dont like the way your waiters and bar-servers expect tips. I find it quite arrogant. Which is more arrogant-expecting a customer to follow a custom that’s been codified into law, or expecting a waiter to pay for the privilege of serving you? ---
**Author:** ![Future\_days](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cab0a1/32.png) [@Future\_days](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Future_days)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965/80 "2005-08-30T23:24:54Z")
They dont have to pay to serve me, they get $2.13 an hour or whatever it is. Or they could get a new job that pays better. I expect it was only codified into law because restaurant owners and pub owners kicked up a fuss about having to pay the minimum wage when they get tips. Why shouldnt they get the minimum wage, that’s what I want to know. What a stupid law. I dont respect stupid laws. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-20-tip-the-minimum-for-good-service/318965.md?page=5)