# Is a bottle of wine per night gonna destroy my liver? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 21, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881 "2009-04-21T19:32:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/21 "2009-04-21T23:55:48Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > In my opinion, there may be some misinformation posted in this thread. Specifically, and among other things, I believe that a bottle of wine consumed daily puts you at more than a “negligible” risk for liver disease. > > First of all, though, I want to clarify that it doesn’t matter whether alcohol is ingested as wine, spirits, or beer. Alcohol is alcohol. Second, there are other risk factors at play which may increase or decrease the likelihood of developing liver disease from alcohol. For example, people with the so-called “metabolic syndrome” (typically manifesting with mild obesity, high blood pressure, high blood fats, and “mild” diabetes) are at increased risk of liver disease even in the absence of alcohol. Add alcohol to the metabolic syndrome risk and the chance of liver disease goes up multiplicatively. Other factors which augment the toxic effect of alcohol on the liver include: occult (or overt) viral hepatitis, e.g. hep B or hep C, occult iron excess (the most common single gene disease in whites), . . . the list goes on. > > Third, we must define 1 “unit” of alcohol (in order to compare apples with apples). On average, wine is about 10% alcohol (yes, some has more, some less - I’m just talking about averages). On average, beer is about 5% alcohol (in Canada), and on average, spirits are approximately 40% alcohol. > > (it’s easier to use grams for what follows. Remember that 1 ounce is about 28 grams). > > So, 5 ounces of wine equals 140 grams of wine. If wine is 10% alcohol, then 140 grams of wine equals 14 grams of alcohol. > > Ten ounces of beer equals 280 grams of beer. If beer is 5% alcohol, then 280 grams of beer equals 14 grams of alcohol. > > One and a quarter ounces of spirits (a “shot”) equals about 35 grams of spirits. If spirits average about 40% alcohol, then 35 grams of spirits equals 14 grams of alcohol. > > In other words, a glass of wine, a bottle of beer, and a shot of spirits all contain about the same amount of alcohol. (It’s very important to keep in mind that people who make and/or pour their own drinks will almost always have more than the above figures. A ‘glass’ of wine at home might be 8 ounces, not 5, and a ‘shot’ of rye poured in your own living room might be closer to 2 ounces than 1¼.) > > In any case, empirically it is known that chronic\* consumption of more than 60 to 70 grams of alcohol per day for a woman, and 70 to 80 grams per day for a man can be expected to lead to liver disease. (likelihood of about 50% for 20 or more years of drinking). > > \*chronic = at least 10 to 20 years > > We also should keep in mind that alcohol does a lot of other ‘bad’ things besides rotting your liver. A few lesser known ones are: > > breast cancer (in women) - for every 10 grams of alcohol ingested (about ¾ of a drink), a woman’s chance of developing breast cancer goes up by 9%. So, five drinks a day, increases a woman’s chance by almost 50%. Note that in Italy where alcohol consumption is fairly high, 11% of breast cancers are due to alcohol > > cancer of the mouth, throat (pharynx), and swallowing tube (esophagus) - unlike the case for cardiovascular disease, where modest consumption of alcohol seems to confer some protection, even occasional and one-drink-per-day ingestion of alcohol are associated with a 12 and 37% increase respectively in the risk of cancer of the esophagus. > > inflammation of the pancreas (pancreatitis) - this is a very nasty illness which you _don’t_ want to get. It is considered to be one of the most painful conditions that someone can have (up there with kidney stones and labour). Pancreatitis has the potential for many complications, none of which are good news or very pleasant for the patient. It can also kill you. About 10% of chronic alcoholics will develop pancreatitis at some stage. In fact, anyone who goes out boozing places themselves at increased risk for pancreatitis, albeit just for a day or so. But consider someone who drinks _every_ day. Their risk of pancreatitis will stay elevated. > > I hope all this has been of interest to somebody. > – KG so essentially, Yes im causing great damage to my body. Especially if I include once a month going to the bars and having waay more than 1 bottle. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/22 "2009-04-21T23:57:17Z")
> [@Quintas](#): > > so essentially, Yes im causing great damage to my body. Especially if I include once a month going to the bars and having waay more than 1 bottle. You’re certainly putting it at significant risk. It’d take a medical examination and some tests to determine if a certain level of damage was occurring at this time. Some folks can consume a big quantity of alcohol steadily and it doesn’t cause much physical damage. Some dodge harm for a while, but eventually something in their physiology changes, and they start having more of a detrimental effect from alcohol. Some take damage early and often. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/23 "2009-04-22T00:26:24Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > How old is he now? It’s really not very much info if he’s 26. 1. I was pretty sure he’d be in the early stages of cirrhosis by now but apparently not. 'Course, doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/24 "2009-04-22T00:28:42Z")
> [@brewha](#): > > In other words, a glass of wine, a bottle of beer, and a shot of spirits all contain about the same amount of alcohol. (It’s very important to keep in mind that people who make and/or pour their own drinks will almost always have more than the above figures. A ‘glass’ of wine at home might be 8 ounces, not 5, and a ‘shot’ of rye poured in your own living room might be closer to 2 ounces than 1¼.) I’ve always heard a shot defined as 1 1/2 oz. Where did you get the 1 1/4 number from? ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/25 "2009-04-22T04:24:45Z")
Alcoholic cirrhosis happens to 1 in 10 heavy drinkers after 10 years. Youre a heavy drinker. 1 in 10 is horrible odds. Odds for cirrhosis get worse if you drink more than 40grams of pure alcohol a day. 10grams in a typical drink. A bottle of wine thats 750ml at 13% is roughly 7.7 drinks. Almost 8. So youre doing double what is considered the max right now. I think that anyone who is drinking a bottle a night needs professional help, regardless of culture or health. Science doesnt care about whether your neighbor does it or whether your dad did it. This stinks of self-medication and serious mental health issues. Youre better off with medication that wont kill your liver. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/26 "2009-04-22T04:27:40Z")
\>but it seemed to me that 3 or 4 glasses (which is about one bottle) was standard for many locals in the evening Try six or seven glasses. With a 13% wine, youre almost at 8 servings because of how alcohol dense it is. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/27 "2009-04-22T04:44:55Z")
> [@Quintas](#): > > so essentially, Yes im causing great damage to my body. Especially if I include once a month going to the bars and having waay more than 1 bottle. ☹ Yeah. Kinda. If you were my Parent, I’d be worried. I mean, you’re doing fine for now, but this is long term sorta issue for the next couple decades hopefully for ya. People’s body’s tend to change as they get older, and it starts to happen right in their 40s for bone density growth, metabolism changes and all that fun stuff. So yeah in short, you’re kinda being risky. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/28 "2009-04-22T09:27:25Z")
A bottle every day is too much, mate. I’d say that was intuitively obvious, but if you’re interested in quantifying it the NHS has a useful drink diary / unit calculator [online](http://units.nhs.uk/unitCalculator.html). At 70 units per week, you’re three times the recommended level for a man. (A unit is 10 mL of ethanol) Do you have a partner who can share the load, so to speak? Once the bottle is opened it’s easy to polish it off. Failing that, I’d be looking to skip the vin rouge entirely for a few days a week, or switch drinks so that you can consume less each day. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/29 "2009-04-22T09:44:54Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > I think that anyone who is drinking a bottle a night needs professional help, regardless of culture or health. Science doesnt care about whether your neighbor does it or whether your dad did it. This stinks of self-medication and serious mental health issues. Youre better off with medication that wont kill your liver. Balls, in certain countries this is perfectly normal and not remotely indicative of mental health issues (it may be in the US, perhaps). ---
**Author:** ![Athena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/35a633/32.png) [@Athena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Athena)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/30 "2009-04-22T11:57:15Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > \>but it seemed to me that 3 or 4 glasses (which is about one bottle) was standard for many locals in the evening > > Try six or seven glasses. With a 13% wine, youre almost at 8 servings because of how alcohol dense it is. Because all bartenders change the size of the pour based on alcohol level, right? 😛 In actual practice, a bottle of wine has 4-6 glasses in it, depending on how big the wine glasses are. I don’t know anyone who pours more or less wine based on the alcohol percent. 13% is probably the average alcohol percent in wine, if not a bit low. Most reds come in between 13.5 and 14.5, and I’ve seen bottles as high as 17% (to be truthful, I’ve only seen one of those, a crazy high alcohol Zinfandel.) But I’ve seen lots & lots of the big fruity wines that people are so gaga over nowadays weigh in at 15 & 16%. Whites tend to run a little lower, but it’s the rare white that goes below 10%, and most are in the 11-13% range. Yes, I drink too much wine. But not as much as the OP 😃 ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/31 "2009-04-22T12:57:48Z")
\>Balls, in certain countries this is perfectly normal and not remotely indicative of mental health issues (it may be in the US, perhaps). Life expectancy in Russia for men: 58 years old. You better believe that has to do with socially acceptable alcoholism. The idea that alcoholism has no tie in with mental health issues is laughable. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/32 "2009-04-22T12:59:04Z")
\>I don’t know anyone who pours more or less wine based on the alcohol percent. The point here is simple: 10grams per drink is the average. A bottle of wine at 13% alcohol is 770 grams, so he’s roughly drinking 7.7 drinks a night, not 3 or 4 as many are suggesting. The number of “drinks” is a useless metric. How many grams of alcohol is he consuming? 770? Yeah, thats a problem. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/33 "2009-04-22T13:03:45Z")
I think that your question is like asking “I smoke two packs of cigarettes per day. Will I get lung cancer?” Nobody can really answer it. I think it is most obvious that you are greatly increasing your chances of having liver disease, but noone can give you a “yes” or “no” answer. My unsolicited advice: Lay off of the sauce. You will feel much better. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/34 "2009-04-22T13:19:01Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > \>Balls, in certain countries this is perfectly normal and not remotely indicative of mental health issues (it may be in the US, perhaps). > > Life expectancy in Russia for men: 58 years old. You better believe that has to do with socially acceptable alcoholism. The idea that alcoholism has no tie in with mental health issues is laughable. This post is a non sequitur. **Angry Lurker** was specifically talking about mental health issues, which you brought up in your earlier post. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2009, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/35 "2009-04-22T13:39:16Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > \>Balls, in certain countries this is perfectly normal and not remotely indicative of mental health issues (it may be in the US, perhaps). > > Life expectancy in Russia for men: 58 years old. You better believe that has to do with socially acceptable alcoholism. The idea that alcoholism has no tie in with mental health issues is laughable. Some beliefs you could have in Russia would get you locked up indefinitely in USA. Some beliefs you could have in USA would get you indefinitely locked up in Russian. Who is right? ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/36 "2009-04-23T01:55:42Z")
Science is right. [Your local culture doesnt mean squat if youre killing your liver:](http://www.gastro.net.au/banners/alcohol.html) ``` * A study which determined the risk level for developing cirrhosis in Australian men who drank alcohol found the risk increased significantly when alcohol intake exceeded 40 grams per day. The risk for women was determined to occur at a similar intake level. 40 gms/day (4 standard drinks) was concluded to be the safe maximum level for both men and women. [Batey R et al Med J Aust (1992) 156 (6)]. * 1% of deaths for 1986 were examined in the U.S. Quantity and frequency of alcohol consumption was obtained from each descendant's next of kin. The percentage of deceased with cirrhosis increased sharply with increasing number of drinks per day. An intake of three alcoholic drinks per day was associated with a significantly higher percentage of cirrhosis deaths compared with lifetime abstainers. [Parrish K et al, J Stud Alcohol (1993) 54(4)]. * 156 papers were reviewed assessing the relation of individual alcohol consumption to risk of physical damage. Evidence was found for a dose-response relationship between alcohol consumption and risk of liver damage. At levels of more than 20-30 grams alcohol/day, all individuals are likely to accumulate risk of harm. [P.Anderson et al. Addiction (1993) 88(11)]. * In a consecutive autopsy series of 210 Finnish males, the effects of long-term moderate alcohol consumption on the incidence of liver disease were observed. Below 40 gms of alcohol/day no significant increase in the features of liver disease were apparent. Daily intake of between 40 - 80 gms/day increased the frequency of fatty liver and slight alcoholic hepatitis. The incidence of liver cirrhosis increased significantly when daily intake exceeded 80gms. [V.Savolainen et al. Alcohol Clin Exp Res (1993) 17 (5)]. * A Danish study measured the prevalence of abnormal liver-derived enzymes in a population sample of 905 men and women aged 30-50. 12% of the cohort was found to have raised levels of abnormal liver-derived enzymes associated with moderate (48gms/day) alcohol intake. With higher alcohol intake (>48gms/day) the odds ratio for raised liver enzymes increased further. [F. Steffensen et al. Int J Epidemiology (1997) 26(1)]. * In another Danish study, self-assessed alcohol intake was determined in a prospective cohort study of 13,285 men and women (aged 30-79 years). The diagnosis of alcohol-induced liver disease was observed. An estimated relative risk of developing liver disease was determined at an intake of 1 - 6 alcoholic beverages per week, with a steep increase in risk above this intake. Women were found to have a significantly higher relative risk of developing alcohol-related liver disease than men. At 7-13 alcoholic beverages per week for women, and 14-27 for men, the relative risk of developing liver disease was greater than one. [U.Becker et al. Hepatology (1996) 23(5)]. * An Italian cohort study looked at the prevalence of chronic liver disease. 6534 subjects aged 12-65 were fully examined, and their alcohol intake evaluated with a dietary questionnaire. The risk threshold for developing liver damage was found at ingestion of more than 30gms alcohol/day (both sexes). 21% of the study group were at risk, and 5.5% of this risk group (74 individuals) showed signs of liver damage. Alcoholic cirrhosis was diagnosed in 2.2% of the risk group (ratio men:women, 9:1) and non-cirrhotic liver disease in 3.3%. The authors concluded that in an open population the risk threshold for developing cirrhosis and non-cirrhotic liver damage is 30gms ethanol per day. This risk increases with increased daily intake. [S.Bellentani et al. Gut (1997) 41(6)]. ``` ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/37 "2009-04-23T01:58:43Z")
[On average, they consume a bottle of vodka a day, with some 30% of all male deaths in Russia alcohol related.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/11/russia) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/38 "2009-04-23T06:23:02Z")
That’s likely too much. About 2X too much. See your MD, see what he sez. Listen to QtM and others here. In the meantime, _stay the fuck away from Tylenol,_ aka acetaminophen aka “paracetamol”, and anything that contains it, such as many cold medicines. Aspirin could be OK, or ibuprofen, etc. But not acetaminophen, combined with booze it can destroy your liver. \* > **[Paracetamol poisoning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paracetamol_toxicity)** > > Paracetamol poisoning, also known as acetaminophen poisoning, is caused by excessive use of the medication paracetamol (acetaminophen). Most people have few or non-specific symptoms in the first 24 hours following overdose. These symptoms include feeling tired, abdominal pain, or nausea. This is typically followed by absence of symptoms for a couple of days, after which yellowish skin, blood clotting problems, and confusion occurs as a result of liver failure. Additional complications may incl... - of course it is almost always safe when taken as directed, but “as directed” does not include anyone drinking that much alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![Oukile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@Oukile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oukile)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/39 "2009-04-23T08:03:25Z")
> [@Angry Lurker](#): > > Double that for luck and we can presume… I like the way you make your stats ! > [@HorseloverFat](#): > > [On average, they consume a bottle of vodka a day, with some 30% of all male deaths in Russia alcohol related.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/11/russia) And that is a reliable reference. Googling ‘russia alcohol consumption’ or ‘russia alcohol statistics’ gives me lot of websites with the figure of 15 L a year per person. That is 50 bottles of vodka per year. And as a matter of fact, this is as much as the French consumption according to [these stats](http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_alc_con-food-alcohol-consumption-current). Conclusion: average stats over one country don’t mean very much. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2009, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881/40 "2009-04-23T08:05:15Z")
It’s probably more than is healthy. But I’ll bet it’s not as bad as smoking a pack a day. Four drinks a day is a moderately unhealthy lifestyle choice, as is failing to get regular exercise, eating a lousy diet, or being 15 pounds overweight. It’s not optimal, but it’s not going to put you in the top 1% of unhealthy people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-bottle-of-wine-per-night-gonna-destroy-my-liver/493881.md?page=3)