# Is a box full of flying bees heavier than an empty box? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 28, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337 "2011-01-28T21:59:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/1 "2011-01-28T21:59:13Z")
my friend wants to know ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/2 "2011-01-28T22:08:29Z")
My guess is, it depends. If the box is airtight, it would be heavier, as some of the space that would be occupied by air (which does have weight) would be taken up by bees, which are heavier. But if the box was not airtight, let’s go to the extreme of a box with a screen mesh on top, then, no, the box with bees would not be heavier, it would weigh the same. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_the\_Turtle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_the_turtle/32/2926_2.png) [@Fear\_the\_Turtle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_the_Turtle)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/3 "2011-01-28T22:18:38Z")
Mythbusters just covered this. In order to stay aloft a flying bee exerts a downward force on the air (and hence to the bottom of the box) equal to its weight. Therefore Box of flying bees = box of dead/on the ground bees \> empty box ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/4 "2011-01-28T22:20:02Z")
If the bees are flying, then they are exerting pressure on the air by beating their wings. Said pressure would be transmitted to the base of the box, and I should tink it would be equal to the pressure the bees’ bodies would exert on the bottom of the box if the bees’ bodies were lying directly on it. So I should think the weight would be the same. I could be wrong, though. Anyway, I see a simple way to determine it. Acquire box suitable for containing bees in sufficient number to be noticable on your scale. Weigh box. Place bees in box, seal it, weigh it again. Allow bees to die; weigh a third time. The tricky part is not being stung to death by the scores of bees you’re screwing with. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/5 "2011-01-28T22:20:45Z")
You’d also have to assume that some of the bees are hitting the walls of the box, even if just to bounce off and keep flying. So not only is the box heavier, but also more unstable and thus harder to carry. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/6 "2011-01-28T22:25:41Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > You’d also have to assume that some of the bees are hitting the walls of the box, even if just to bounce off and keep flying. So not only is the box heavier, but also more unstable and thus harder to carry. You don’t carry a box full of bees unless it is airtight. That’s how my great-aunt Virginia died. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/7 "2011-01-28T22:43:40Z")
Imagine the box has walls a foot thick, so you can’t tell there are bees inside. To you, it’s a block of something. The block has mass. Nothing that happens inside that block is going to change the mass (nitpicks about bloody quantum fluctuations and proton decay notwithstanding) The movement of the bees within the box might exert temporary reaction forces perceptible outside, but they will all add to zero over time. The box weighs the same as a box of dead bees. A box of air weighs less, because it has no bees in it. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/8 "2011-01-28T22:54:32Z")
Next question: Is a hovercraft heavier when the eels within it are swimming? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/9 "2011-01-28T23:01:37Z")
My nipples explode with delight at this thread. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/10 "2011-01-28T23:51:52Z")
> **[Does a fly in a jar increase the mass of the jar?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=481551)** > > Suppose you have an airtight jar. You weigh it. Then you put in a fly and reseal it. Does the fly increase the mass of the jar when it is flying around in the jar? > **[I have a question about weight](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=343449)** > > Let’s say I have a box that weighs 100 pounds. Now let’s say that I take a 5 pound hummingbird and out it in the box and close it. The box now weighs 105 pounds. If the humming bids starts flying and stays in the middle of the box, does it weigh... ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/11 "2011-01-29T00:01:20Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > You don’t carry a box full of bees unless it is airtight. That’s how my great-aunt Virginia died. What a coincidence! So did both my Aunt Beas. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/12 "2011-01-29T00:24:32Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > What a coincidence! So did both my Aunt Beas. Could they fly? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/13 "2011-01-29T00:28:28Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Could they fly? I don’t know if they were flying, but they sure raised a ruckus. Before all went silent. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/14 "2011-01-29T01:41:14Z")
Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your mailing list. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/15 "2011-01-29T01:43:47Z")
Not if they’re flying down. ---
**Author:** ![xoferew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/e9a140/32.png) [@xoferew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xoferew)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/16 "2011-01-29T01:46:43Z")
If a horse is carrying a man who is carrying a boy who is carrying a box of bees, and the boy is supporting the full weight of the bees, how can the man and the horse also be supporting all the weight?! And what if they are all flying because it’s not a horse, it’s a Pegasus! ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/17 "2011-01-29T02:13:22Z")
Despite the silly tangents in this thread, it is still more of a General Question than a Great Debate. I am moving it to GQ, (although introducing conveyor belts to allow the bees to take off is prohibited in this thread). [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/18 "2011-01-29T03:55:15Z")
> [@Fear\_the\_Turtle](#): > > Mythbusters just covered this. In order to stay aloft a flying bee exerts a downward force on the air (and hence to the bottom of the box) equal to its weight. Therefore > > Box of flying bees = box of dead/on the ground bees \> empty box What if they were flying upside down? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/19 "2011-01-29T03:59:14Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > What if they were flying upside down? In which direction are they accelerating? If they are accelerating downwards faster than 32.2 ft/s^2 then the box will be lighter than a beeless box. If they do it at a freefall then it’s the same as a beeless box (until they hit the bottom) if they are stationary then it’s equal to a box with dead bees, and if they accelerate upward then it’ll weigh more than a box with dead bees. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/20 "2011-01-29T05:14:32Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > (although introducing conveyor belts to allow the bees to take off is prohibited in this thread). > > [/Modding] Awww, party pooper! If conveyor belts are off limits, then maybe it has something to do with 14 k of g in a f p d. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337.md?page=2)