# Is a box full of flying bees heavier than an empty box? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 28, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337 "2011-01-28T21:59:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/61 "2011-02-01T19:47:42Z")
😃 > [@Shodan](#): > > My nipples explode with delight at this thread. > > Regards, > Shodan That line caused me to spew Dr Pepper out of my nose! :eek:, (and take my word for it, THAT HURTS!) Not to mention, the REALLY odd looks that I received, upon simultaneously, spewing and laughing hysterically!😃 Many thanks, for a great way, to start the day.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/62 "2011-02-02T07:32:40Z")
> [@wbeaty](#): > > . . . To better visualize this, set bees on fire, then quickly blow them out again. . . . OK. This thread is getting weird, now. > [@Ruken](#): > > My mailman was NOT happy about delivering boxes of bees to us. . . While Sears doesn’t sell them, plenty of other place will ship bees. It’s good to know that bee-shipping has not died in America. Just thinking about suburban postal workers occasionally getting annoyed by bees makes me smile. > [@Tard\_Boy](#): > > Zombees! :eek: Ouch. That one stung. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/63 "2011-02-02T07:49:07Z")
OK. From what I understand, the box weighs more with flying bees in it because of the force generated on the box from their flight. What if magically all the bees died in mid-air and you measured the box at a point in time when all the bees were simply falling downward? ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/64 "2011-02-02T08:13:13Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > OK. From what I understand, the box weighs more with flying bees in it because of the force generated on the box from their flight. > > What if magically all the bees died in mid-air and you measured the box at a point in time when all the bees were simply falling downward? More compared to an empty box, yes? Because if you understand it to be heavier than a box with stationary bees you understand wrong. Now if you measure it while all the bees are falling, it will temporarily be lighter than a box with stationary bees. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/65 "2011-02-02T08:32:13Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Actually, it doesn’t matter if the bees are _moving_ up or down, since a bee that’s moving at a constant speed is only generating net forces on its surroundings equal to its weight. What matters is whether the bee is _accelerating_ up or down. Indeed - and since the bees only have a finite space in which to do this, it must net out to zero over time. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/66 "2011-02-02T09:00:53Z")
> [@naita](#): > > More compared to an empty box, yes? Because if you understand it to be heavier than a box with stationary bees you understand wrong. > > Now if you measure it while all the bees are falling, it will temporarily be lighter than a box with stationary bees. Errr, I guess I had two questions. Would the box with the dead falling bees weigh less than the box with flying bees, and would the box with the falling bees weigh equal to a box without any bees? ---
**Author:** ![wbeaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/439d5e/32.png) [@wbeaty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wbeaty)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/67 "2011-02-02T09:15:50Z")
1. Plot the wavelength spectrum of their buzzing. 2. Observe distinct ‘line spectrum’ caused by similar wing vibrations of separate insects 3. Increase density by shrinking the box or by adding more bees (add a convenient movable piston to one box wall) 4. Observe the line spectrum become smeared out into “band structure” 5. Plot curve for pressure/density to measure intra-bee interactions, density profile of individual insects (rasins in pudding theory vs hard central bee theory) Ah, a box full of flying bees is like a shaken box full of bells. Moving the piston adjusts the coupling and linewidth of your oscillator array. Question: if you dove into a swimming pool full of flying bees with fairly dense packing, wouldn’t you experience significant buoyant force? Compare with swimmingpool full of double edge razorblades [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-1pyJP-5Rs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-1pyJP-5Rs) ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/68 "2011-02-02T15:40:37Z")
> [@wbeaty](#): > > Question: if you dove into a swimming pool full of flying bees with fairly dense packing, wouldn’t you experience significant buoyant force?[URL=“[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-1pyJP-5Rs](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-1pyJP-5Rs)”] I’d think you’d experience significant stinging force. All kidding aside, this depends on whether bees are more or less dense than humans. My instinct says the latter since they fly and one helpful adaptation that some flighted animals have is light weight. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/69 "2011-02-04T04:50:43Z")
> [@Tard\_Boy](#): > > Zombees! :eek: What do Zombees eat?!? ---
**Author:** ![d\_street](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bc79bd/32.png) [@d\_street](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d_street)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/70 "2011-02-04T13:54:21Z")
This thread has got me thinking inside the box. That the box would be no lighter can be demonstrated by changing the fluid from air to a liquid, say water. No, make it orange juice. A box of bees actively swimming around in orange juice weighs the same as a box of bees passively drifting through orange juice. There is one factor that seems to have been overlooked, though: Flying bees generate heat. A hot box would rise in air more than a cool box would, or at least it would sink more slowly. (Think of a hot air balloon full of bees.) ---
**Author:** ![d\_street](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bc79bd/32.png) [@d\_street](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/d_street)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/71 "2011-02-04T13:55:39Z")
> [@Tard\_Boy](#): > > Zombees! :eek: Genius! ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/72 "2011-02-04T14:07:19Z")
Zombees are on the what now? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/73 "2011-02-04T14:07:41Z")
> [@d\_street](#): > > (Think of a hot air balloon full of bees.) On a treadmill. ---
**Author:** ![spenczar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@spenczar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spenczar)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/74 "2011-02-04T17:30:00Z")
> [@Autolycus](#): > > Errr, I guess I had two questions. Would the box with the dead falling bees weigh less than the box with flying bees, and would the box with the falling bees weigh equal to a box without any bees? Yes and yes. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/75 "2011-02-04T18:00:26Z")
> [@spenczar](#): > > Think about one bee. It can be in one of four states: But what if there were two bees or not two bees? THAT is the question. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/76 "2011-02-04T20:34:22Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > On a treadmill. But can the hot air balloon full of bees on a treadmill take off? And are the bees on a treadmill in a hot air balloon or are the bees in a hot air balloon on a treadmill? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/77 "2011-02-05T00:35:27Z")
> [@Canadjun](#): > > But can the hot air balloon full of bees on a treadmill take off? And are the bees on a treadmill in a hot air balloon or are the bees in a hot air balloon on a treadmill? And are they farting? ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/78 "2011-02-05T01:29:40Z")
> [@d\_street](#): > > Flying bees generate heat. A hot box would rise in air more than a cool box would, or at least it would sink more slowly. (Think of a hot air balloon full of bees.) This would only be true if the volume of the container were allowed to expand. If the volume stays the same and the temperature rises, then the pressure will rise and the total overall density of the box will stay the same. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/79 "2011-02-05T16:05:20Z")
Still need an answer: What do Zombees eat? Bee brainz? Beerainz? P.S. Is anyone else watching the ads at the bottom of this thread? Almost as amusing as the thread itself. ---
**Author:** ![emjay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e57/32.png) [@emjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emjay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337/80 "2011-02-07T16:19:22Z")
At least the subject line has the word _be_ in it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-box-full-of-flying-bees-heavier-than-an-empty-box/569337.md?page=5)