You know, the polarization of the political spectrum in the US amuses me. (I prefer to be amused, because if I took it seriously I might break down and cry.) I live in an area that is overwhelmingly conservative. For example, Georgia just passed a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage even though the ammendment is vague and just plain bad law. I voted against it, obviously. (I ain’t gay, but I am concerned about my uncle’s inheritance rights, his taxes, and his rights in general). Anywho, the people who come into my bar were overwhelmingly for the ammerndment. Some of these idiots think that FOX news offers the gospel truth.
So I live in a sea of conservatives. But this message board is overwhelmingly liberal. Now, that ain’t a bad thing, and is part of the reason I post here. But I seem to have found the other side of the coin in some of the responses to this thread. People don’t question the media enough. Just as some idiots down here in South Georgia think FOX is “Fair and Balanced”, some of the members on this board will defend CNN till their last breath.
This thread was never meant to be political. This ain’t a rant about the “liberal media”, it was meant to make fun of inept media, liberal and conservative alike. Everybody’s biased. Again, that’s why newspapers have op-ed pages. We don’t have a decent news network that confines its opinions to its op-ed shows. That’s all I’m saying.
Peace, everybody. Let’s make fun of the ineptitude of all three networks. I’d rather tell jokes than bitch at each other, even if this is the pit.
If you can’t make fun of CNN, make fun of FOX. I’ll be laughing right there with you.
A couple things, first is minor: I really worry about next of kin rights regarding my uncle and his lover more than inheritance. Neither here nor there, but I mispoke.
Eckers, HA!. Finally, I was hoping for somebody to take this thread the way it was intended.
Last, c’mon people, all three networks are ripe for parody. I did mine in the OP, let’s hear yours.
I believe the word you were looking for was cemetery. That being said, I don’t believe I cast any aspersions on Lincoln for his speech. I believe I used the word “elegant” to describe The Gettysburg Address. I was just trying to be fair and balanced. Everyone does it. As much as I can’t stand the clown, I don’t think we can hang Geroge II for it, unless we hang all our wartime presidents, including Lincoln.
I’d rather this thread be an amusing diversion, but I think I have to take Aro to task. Maybe I should have done it earlier, but the Hell with it. He has to explain this:
“All you Americans”. What the fuck does that mean? I noticed from your profile that you didn’t give a nation of residence, but by your posts I’m assuming it isn’t the U.S.
Climb down off your ivory fucking foreign tower and realize the fact that all news outlets, U.S., European, Asian, African, Arab, whatever, have an editorial slant. From your posts I’m assuming yours leans pretty far to the left. “Petty and miniscule differences”, my ass. I don’t find decisions to go to war “petty and miniscule”. Whether you think the Iraq war is justified or not, the decision sure as hell ain’t “petty and miniscule”. Too many live are at stake.
There is a spectrum in American political thought. You only show your ignorance of the U.S. when you assume that we are all the same.
I do list perfectly clear where I am from - all you have to do is understand it. It’s right there…
I never claimed otherwise. I was merely pointing out that the slant that CNN displays is definitely to the right.
I trust you will look again and see that I was talking about the miniscule differences between your political parties when I made that comment (not individuals positions), and then you will also note the overwhelming support FOR the war in Iraq from the so-called ‘leftist’ Democratic party - who really are just Rebublican-lite, whether you like it or not.
Sure there is, and yet arguing over who is the most left-leaning between CNN or FOX, or Bush and Clinton, is like arguing over who is the most far right between Castro and Guevara.
Let’s get back to this then, if this is indeed the point of the thread. Okay…
When did Clinton realize Paula Jones wasn’t a Democrat? When she didn’t swallow everything he presented.
A guy walks into a bar, sees Bush and Powell sitting there.
“Wow, this is a real honour.” he says, “What are you guys doing in here?”
Bush says, “We’re planning WWIII.”
And the guy says, “Really? What’s going to happen?”
Bush says, “Well, we’re going to kill 140 million Iraqis this time and one blonde with big tits.”
The guy exclaimed, “A blonde with big tits? Why kill a blonde with big tits?”
Bush turns to Powell, punches him on the shoulder and says, “See, smartass! I told you no one would worry about the 140 million Iraqis!”
Do you think the people running CNN are brain-damaged? When FOX started gaining ground, the other networks shifted to the right (less dramatically) to catch up. Nobody moved left. They don’t want to present the opposition, they want to do whatever has already been proven to be successful monetarily.
Holy shit, I knew this board leaned left, but this is fucking ridiculous. Are you people that blind? Aro called Bill “socialized medicine” Clinton right wing, for Christ’s sake. Sure he wasn’t as liberal as, say, Chomsky, but the guy wanted to put gays in the military. Are you saying that’s the actions of a conservative?
You can deny CNN’s political leanings all you want, but the problem with you people is that you are so far to the left that everybody looks right wing.
I don’t agree. He wanted to be perceived that way for purposes of his campaign, but upon taking office he dropped it like a hot potato, opting instead for the infamous “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” policy, which has resulted in unprecedented numbers of discharges based on sexual orientation.
Ironically, this is the exact thing I see from you, only reversed. You are so far right, that if you take even a single step back towards centre, you think you are being moderate. You take two steps and you think you are a leftie. You don’t seen to notice you already took about 50 steps right prior to this tiny amendment in your position.
For a bit of contrast in your position, I vote for conservative parties in local elections, so in my own context I am to the right of centre. In world context I am probably about as centrist as it gets, and in US terms a screaming commie pinko liberal. Everything in America is right of centre, and Clinton was further right than most of those who *claim * to be left. I’m not going to list his policies, but suffice to say he only appears left if you are so far right that left is the only direction available for you to look.
Thank you, aro, for your very cogent comments. I never realized how right wing I truly am. I suppose it’s understandable, I just never knew that supporting gay marriage, opposing the privatization of social security, and questioning the war in Iraq was right wing. It’s my mistake, and I apologize.
By the way, where are you posting from? You can call me an idiot if you like, but the “if you don’t know, I won’t tell you” schtick has me befuddled.
You support gay marriage yet flip-out about 4 posts up because of the possibility of gay recruits in the military? And opposing further privatisation doesn’t make you necessarily left wing, just less right wing. Once you openly advocate free and universal health care for all citizens then you can start calling yourself leftist (in world terms). I don’t really believe ‘questioning’ or even directly opposing the (damn fool) war in Iraq is remotely a question of left or right. But I accept your apology regardless.
If you stick “Norn Iron” into Google, it’ll tell you. Or if you say “Norn Iron” in the correct (local) accent, it’ll tell you too.
Or I could just tell you to save you the bother. No(rthe)rn Ir(ela)n(d). There you go…
You say that you find yourself amused by the polarization of politics in the United States. But, in my opinion, one of the most polarizing aspects of politics in this country is people who label themselves “moderates” just because they happen to fall between the Republicans and the Democrats, and base all their arguments and positions on the false assumption that their own position is somehow neutral or above politics, and that everyone to the left or right of them is a crazy extremist.
Just because you oppose a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage doesn’t make you a moderate. Just because you don’t slavishly follow FOX news doesn’t make you a moderate. And, more importantly, just because you call yourself a moderate doesn’t make it so. It also doesn’t mean that you aren’t part of the political polarization of the country; all it means is that you’re so caught up in a political spectrum encompassed only by Democrats and Republicans that you can’t even envision arguments that might extend outside those parameters.
You say that people don’t question the media enough, yet you insist on hopping on the same old “FOX is right, CNN is left” bandwagon that so often forestalls serious media criticism in the United States. You need to look beyond a political spectrum bookended by the DNC and RNC and ask what it really means to be left or liberal in America, and whether CNN fits the bill.
Your assertion that some people on this board “will defend CNN till their last breath” demonstrates a total inability to understand the responses you’ve received in this thread. In fact, i’d be willing to bet that most of us who have contradicted you about CNN’s politics are probably actually more critical of CNN than you are. I know that i, for one, have no interest in defending CNN, as i think that their news values and their level of professionalism are below what we should expect, and their editorial position is far too uncritical of those in power—be they Democrat or Republican. To call them left is a joke. In fact, if they were as liberal or as left as you claim, i’d probably be defending them, because in my opinion America could really benefit from a truly left-leaning major cable news organization, one that was willing to question not only Republican policies, but the Democrats’ capitulation to conservatism.
You’re right about the ineptness and the partisan politics, but it’s patently not all you’re saying. You’ve taken a clear position not only on the journalistic ethics and values of these networks, but on where they fall in the political spectrum. It’s certainly true that we can, to a certain extent, disentangle politics from journalism when making critiques like this. It’s possible for a conservative news organization to have excellent, professional journalism, and it’s possible for a conservative news organization to disply execrable journalistic ethics. Similarly for liberal news organizations. Despite being a leftist, for example, i believe that some of the best journalism in the country is in the pages of the Wall Street Journal. If you stay away from the rabid right-wing morons on the Op-Ed pages, you’ll find in the WSJ reporting of a calibre absent at many other major news outlets.
So, whatever happened to that socialized medicine thing anyway? Died a pretty quick death, didn’t it? And, to tell you the truth, Clinton never seemed that worried about it. And, as liberal said, Clinton never really wanted gays in the military. If he had really wanted it, he could have gone much further than his “don’t ask, don’t tell” compromise. He wanted a policy that would mollify the conservatives while making it look like he was trying to help gay service people.
And Chomsky liberal? Once again you demonstrate a complete misunderstanding of what constitutes liberal (in the modern sense) and what is truly left in the United States. If you actually read any of Chomsky’s work, you’d see that he spends half his time slamming liberals, and i’m sure he would consider being called a liberal a high insult. In some ways (though by no means all) he’s closer to Liberal’s more classical definition of “liberal.” Chomsky calls himself a libertarian socialist, or an anarchist, and takes as his political example the work of (among others) thinkers like Wilhelm von Humboldt, John Stuart Mill, and anarcho-syndicalist Rudolph Rocker.
And you can deny CNN’s political leanings all you want, but the problem with you is that you are so caught up in your own definition of “moderate” that even CNN looks left-wing to you.
I seem to have lost a post. It was a long one, too. Fuck. I don’t think the Chicago Reader is feeding the gerbils enough. Anyhow, because I’m a practical man I’ll just say “fuck it” and move on.
A question for mhendo:
So, um… Hell, I don’t know. What the Hell is it gonna take to please you? Because I refuse to be labeled I’m “polarizing”? Since when is not taking sides “polarizing”? Are you honestly saying that that the extremes are polarized by the middle?
What do you mean, “I refuse to be labelled”? You very clearly label yourself a “moderate,” and you then offer political analyses that make very clear exactly what being a moderate means to you. Just because you see yourself as being part of “the middle” doesn’t mean you’re not taking sides or that you are somehow objective or neutral. If you can’t undertsand that, i fear you really don’t grasp what it means to be political.
Your whole argument reminds me of Cold War liberals like Daniel Bell and Walt Rostow who posited the “end of ideology” and a teleological inevitability regarding the stages of social and economic development. While many (most?) of us have a natural tendency to see our own positions as objectively reasonable and non-partisan, anyone with a modicum of intelligence and introspection should be able to perceive that his or her own position—whether left, right, or center—is itself a product of a variety of political predispositions and biases, and that in the world of politics there is pretty much no such thing as “not taking sides.”
Can you not understand that your very assertion of “not taking sides” is, in itself, a political position, and that it is not an objective indicator of neutrality or non-partisanship? You need to look beyond the narrow range of what constitutes mainstream American political discourse. Just because you happen to fall between the Democrats and the Republicans doesn’t make you the fulcrum of the political see-saw.
Just popping in to recount the Anderson Cooper interview on the Daily Show two nights ago.
Jon Stewart: (Paraphrasing) And do you think this whole Iraqi peace will hold up?
Anderson Cooper: We at CNN don’t try and give our opinion.
Jon Stewart: It’s that liberal bias of yours.
Also, MSNBC is so far to the left it’s run by hippies. Does no one read their editorials page? Or Newsweek? Anna Quindlen eats the aborted children of Republicans for breakfast. It does not belong in the “even-handed” category.
(And Gun, it’s quite possible that the CNN anchor stumbled over his words because he was drunk. Are you unfamiliar with Miles O’Brien?)
Lib, I like you. Your politics are indefinable and can’t be placed on a left-center-right scale. Kinda like me ::chuckle:: I don’t always agree with you, but we’ve had some interesting discussions dating back to when you were Libertarian and I was Beeblebrox. I’m gonna rehash a bit of my lost post, I hope you’ll bear with me.
Clinton really did want gays in the military. Sam Nunn, who was the chairman of the Armed Forces Comitee at the time, convinced him that pushing for that was politically inviolable. We all know what a political animal Clinton was, so he accepted Sen. Nunn’s compromise in the “Don’t ask - don’t tell” policy that the military has now. Clinton had to settle for a partial victory, but a least he still gave Rep. Gingrich damn near a coronary.
Marley, your logic is flawed. You don’t strike me as cowardly and idiotic as aro, or as blindly argumentative as mhendo, but you’re still missing something. CNN moved left because FOX had pretty much sewn up the conservative demographic. CNN was left with one choice. They can continue to try to be impartial, or they can pander to the other side. AIR AMERICA tried the same thing on the AM dial, but it hasn’t worked out too well.
Anyhow, this thread was meant to petition jokes regarding the various news networks. If nobody can make a joke about CNN, can’t we at least make a joke about FOX? C’mon, they sued The Simpsons, fer Christ’s sake. MSNBC is pretty ripe for parody, too.
on preview: Rysler, now that’s what I’m talking about. Makes me wonder if the reason CNN is losing in the ratings has less to do with the political spectrum than the availability of vodka martinis in the conference room.
Well, i guess if you don’t have the courage or the intellect to actually deal with the arguments, calling someone “blindly argumentative” is a reasonable substitute.
Or they can say, "Well, there’s a market out there for conservative Democrats and moderate Repubilcans who don’t like liberal policies but also aren’t interested in the attack-dog style of journalism practiced at FOX.
Your understanding of American politics, and of the media, is at about an eight-year-old level.
Not only are you an idiot, but now you’re demonstrating that you are also a liar.
Nowhere in the OP is there a call for jokes. Your post was a rather clear attempt to criticize bias in cable news organizations, and it finished with a call for a “decent cable news channel.” Sounds pretty serious to me. I saw absolutely no call for jokes, and nothing you said was remotely amusing.
