# Is a four day school week a good idea? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255 "2005-09-24T20:54:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/1 "2005-09-24T20:54:28Z")
Seems to have some serious merits. [Jackson schools’ week cut to 4 days](http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/12719269.htm) > [@](#): > > Four-day school weeks aren’t new; some rural districts in the mountains or deserts of the West have had them for 20 years or more. In Kentucky, the pioneer was Webster County, which made the change in 2003. > > Three years ago, the Western Kentucky county faced a financial shortfall, looked at its tax base, which was flat at best, and considered closing an elementary school. But the school was a good performer on statewide tests, and the move wouldn’t have been popular. > > Instead, Webster found a similar district in East Grand, Colo., and spent a year studying its four-day week. Administrators realized a four-day week offered more planning time and training opportunities for teachers. > > Not only do teachers and students love the shorter week, but the school has saved enough money to offer full-day kindergarten instead of half-days, Webster Superintendent James Kemp said. > > In its first year, Webster saved more than $150,000 in transportation, overtime and workers’ compensation costs and pay for substitute teachers. It saved an additional $167,000 by cutting a handful of jobs, eliminating some bus routes and making other cost-cutting measures. > > The idea of saving 20 percent on fuel – Jackson County buys 520 gallons of diesel a day – is popular, especially in the rural West. > > The Colorado Department of Education found that 80 percent to 90 percent of community members it surveyed liked the four-day week. In one town, a school board reverted to a five-day week shortly before an election, and voters replaced all of the board members. > > Most districts extend the school day to make up for the lost time. Jackson will start schools 15 minutes earlier and end the day 45 minutes later. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/2 "2005-09-24T22:02:30Z")
I think one of the biggest changes in 21st century education would be the elimination of a summer break, converting ALL schools to year round schooling and the institution of a four day school week for high-performing schools. Too many schools are day care centers for working parents or holding pens for teenagers with essentially no job skills. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/3 "2005-09-24T22:42:07Z")
Objections, off the top of my head: 1. In the linked article at least, they’re only extending the school day by an hour per day. That means they must be losing a few hours per week. 2. Assuming that the average 5-day/week school has a 7 hour day, increasing that even by an hour brings it to an 8 hour day. Fine for an actual workplace, but for most kids, that’s a _really_ long time to be sitting in class. 3. What happens to sports? Practices are going to get pushed back an hour, plus, students will be more tired to begin with. When I played soccer in school, it was a pain practicing from 3-5. If you start an hour later or more, it’s going to start to get dark, and parents will get pissed off about it. 4. I don’t know how universal this is, but I’m assuming tht my school district was hardly the only one to allow students to take an extra class in lieu of a lunch hour. You may or may not get a chance to eat in class, depending on your teachers and schedule. Eight hours is probably not a healthy amount of time for a 16-year-old to go without food. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/4 "2005-09-24T22:45:07Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > 1. In the linked article at least, they’re only extending the school day by an hour per day. That means they must be losing a few hours per week. That’s not necessarily a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/5 "2005-09-25T00:35:19Z")
If it works for that school district than OK. But I don’t think success in some small districts can just be applied to the entire country. I wonder what the parents at work do about kids not in school? ---
**Author:** ![deevee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@deevee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deevee)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/6 "2005-09-25T03:34:08Z")
I think one of the major problems in the U.S. today and in the Southern States in particular is too much education. When it starts costing more money to educate kids the sensible businesslike solution is to stop sending them to school so much. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/7 "2005-09-25T07:52:05Z")
> [@Askia](#): > > Too many schools are day care centers for working parents or holding pens for teenagers with essentially no job skills. And what where would you rather kids with working parents and few job skills be? ---
**Author:** ![FlyingRamenMonster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@FlyingRamenMonster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlyingRamenMonster)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/8 "2005-09-25T08:34:26Z")
> [@deevee](#): > > I think one of the major problems in the U.S. today and in the Southern States in particular is too much education. When it starts costing more money to educate kids the sensible businesslike solution is to stop sending them to school so much. That was _exactly_ my reaction! \<3 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/9 "2005-09-25T11:23:18Z")
> [@deevee](#): > > I think one of the major problems in the U.S. today and in the Southern States in particular is too much education. When it starts costing more money to educate kids the sensible businesslike solution is to stop sending them to school so much. Here’s my favorite. My district came up with a brilliant plan to deal with the low test scores of students: let them go home early and make teachers go to meetings. Why? The problem with schools are the teachers. ---
**Author:** ![MrDarkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e480ec/32.png) [@MrDarkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDarkness)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/10 "2005-09-25T12:39:19Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > Here’s my favorite. My district came up with a brilliant plan to deal with the low test scores of students: let them go home early and make teachers go to meetings. Why? The problem with schools are the teachers. Yes, those students displaying low test scores are doubtlessly the offspring–of the same gene pool–of parents pulling down less than six figures. So fuck 'em. They’re going to end up the same galley slaves whether taught four days a week or five. And teachers are better employed going to meetings–they only teach, afterall, because they can’t _do_ . The sooner we purify the gene pool, boil off the riff-raff, the sooner the rest can get back to playing the back nine. We can always import a few cockroaches from south-of-the-border to carry our clubs, then wash our cars. In the event they expect us to extract any coppers out of our pockets to educate their children, thus giving them a fighting chance of despoiling the gene pool anew, then fuck 'em. back to beanerland they go. They can easily be replaced. ---
**Author:** ![Askia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Askia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askia)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/11 "2005-09-25T15:26:48Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > And what where would you rather kids with working parents and few job skills be? In school, unfortunately. If you’ll read my comments, the four-day school option is one I’d rather see for top-performing schools. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/12 "2005-09-25T15:47:22Z")
> [@deevee](#): > > I think one of the major problems in the U.S. today and in the Southern States in particular is too much education. When it starts costing more money to educate kids the sensible businesslike solution is to stop sending them to school so much. The problem is that schools budgets are derived from the tax base of their community. In other words, there is a vicious/virtuous circle - town has good schools -\> people want to move there -\> real estate prices go up -\> only wealthy can afford to live there -\> higher tax base improves the schools OR bad schools -\> people with money move out -\> tax base decreases -\> schools worsen The four day week thing just sounds like a fiscal band aid fix that doesn’t really address the problems of educating students so they are actually prepared for the real world. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/13 "2005-09-25T16:05:52Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The problem is that schools budgets are derived from the tax base of their community. In other words, there is a vicious/virtuous circle - > town has good schools -\> people want to move there -\> real estate prices go up -\> only wealthy can afford to live there -\> higher tax base improves the schools Looks like many states (13 according to [this](http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0805/28mettax.html) article) are considering moving away from property tax based school funding and on to sale or income tax based school funding. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/14 "2005-09-25T19:15:15Z")
> [@MrDarkness](#): > > Yes, those students displaying low test scores are doubtlessly the offspring–of the same gene pool–of parents pulling down less than six figures. So fuck 'em. They’re going to end up the same galley slaves whether taught four days a week or five. And teachers are better employed going to meetings–they only teach, afterall, because they can’t _do_ . > > The sooner we purify the gene pool, boil off the riff-raff, the sooner the rest can get back to playing the back nine. We can always import a few cockroaches from south-of-the-border to carry our clubs, then wash our cars. In the event they expect us to extract any coppers out of our pockets to educate their children, thus giving them a fighting chance of despoiling the gene pool anew, then fuck 'em. back to beanerland they go. They can easily be replaced. What in the Hell in my post implied that I felt this way! I was pointing out the irony that to get students to succeed in school was to have them spend \*less /I] time in school? And for your information, I work with students with disabilities - the same sort of students that Hitler and many American states tried to eliminate through eugenics. My daughter was disabled too, so don’t you EVER accuse me of wanting to “purify the geane pool”. I work extra hours trying to keep my students in school and not dropping out. So if you’re going to be an asshole and attack me for my viewpoint - at least be correct about how I feel. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/15 "2005-09-25T19:19:37Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Seems to have some serious merits. > > [Jackson schools’ week cut to 4 days](http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/12719269.htm) But I don’t think that this is a causal relationship but more of a correlation. The real merits is to have school leadership willing to think out of the box and come up with novel solutions for their students’ problems. This could include 4 day weeks, block scheduling, Saturday classes, mandatory parent involvement, improved attendence programs, day-care on campus, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/16 "2005-09-25T21:01:05Z")
I think the 4-day-week concept depends on what sort of responsibility the kids are given (or can accept) for their own education. The more homework is emphasized as a tool for learning on one’s own, the less important class time becomes. This is obvious in university, for example, when one’s class time rarely goes above 15 hours per week. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/17 "2005-09-25T21:11:44Z")
Back when I went to school in Kentcuky, the state set a lower limit fro the number of school days per year. I guess that must have changed. The ultimate test of whether the 4-day week is a good idea comes when the test scores come in. If the scores go up, if students from that district become more competitive when applying for college, and if other means of assessing the district show success, then I’m all for it. On the other hand, the parents there should watch caerfully. If the indicators go down, they need to apply pressure on their politicians to go back to five days. Logically curriculums are all designed around a five-day week. Switching to four days removes twenty percent of your in-class teaching time. To make it work, teachers would have to redsitribute the material. Presumably that means more material covered on a typical day, and less time for question and answer sessions. However there could be advantages from the long weekend. For instance, teachers could give more involved homework assignments now that the students will have three free days to work on them. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/18 "2005-09-25T21:12:00Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > 1. In the linked article at least, they’re only extending the school day by an hour per day. That means they must be losing a few hours per week. > 2. Assuming that the average 5-day/week school has a 7 hour day, increasing that even by an hour brings it to an 8 hour day. Fine for an actual workplace, but for most kids, that’s a _really_ long time to be sitting in class. 1 They might not be losing a few hours a week. My kids are currently in school from 8:15 to 2:30. In grade school it was 8:30 to 2:30. That’s six hours, or six hours and 15 minutes, depending on grade. By the time you account for lunch, homeroom, class changes and housekeeping issues (such as assignment and collection of homework), you’re down to five hours or less of instructional time. That means they lose an hour or less per week, which may turn out to be meaningless with the longer class periods. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/19 "2005-09-25T22:10:08Z")
As the economy becomes more global and our kids are being asked to compete with a larger pool for the same jobs, do we really want to have them spend_less_ time in school? Our ranking has already slipped dramatically. They need more time in school, not less. ---
**Author:** ![TonyF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@TonyF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonyF)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255/20 "2005-09-25T22:52:13Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The four day week thing just sounds like a fiscal band aid fix that doesn’t really address the problems of educating students so they are actually prepared for the real world. This assumes that what they learn in school prepares them for the real world. The only thing that prepared me for the real world and has given me a much better competitive edge than my peer has been entering the real world, the workforce, marketplace, etc, _earlier_. It’s in the real world that you realize 1) school doesn’t teach you much about the real world, and 2) education is not a ticket to success, but a tool you keep around to use for the right situations. Again, education improves the chances of success _in general_, but there are upper limits - some uncontrollable! - that only insight, experience, and pure luck can surpass. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-a-four-day-school-week-a-good-idea/323255.md?page=2)